Comments on Ambassador Watch: A Tribute to Witness Weinland

Jared Olar said... No, it was easier not to copy t...

2008-04-20T16:10:00.000+12:00

Jared Olar said...

No, it was easier not to copy the New Testament books at all. (Handcopying books is very difficult work.) The less words to copy, the better -- so why not leave out the difficult and inconvenient bits, if they really mean what you say?

Two reasons. For one, a lot of people were familiar with what the copies said.

For another, leaving out the hundreds of passages that suggested or outright said that Jesus' return was soon they wouldn't have much of a book left to copy and what they had left, wouldn't make any sense at all.

Corky said: The NT says that he was coming back "s...

2008-04-19T21:21:00.000+12:00

Corky said: The NT says that he was coming back "soon" but 2,000 years says that he's not.

No, the New Testament says He "is coming quickly," not "is coming BACK quickly." There's more to the coming of Christ than the Second Coming.

That's right, they didn't, but we have translations in plain English.

That still doesn't mean you can just pick up a Bible, read the "plain English," and assume you understand what it says. You also have to understand the historical background, the cultural and religious surroundings and presuppositions, the idiomatic expressions of the original languages, the purpose and genre of the writing, the author's intent, the concerns of the audience . . .

So you imagine that Gone With the Wind or other popular novels require interpretation?

Of course they do. Do you really think they don't? If you knew nothing, or next to nothing, of the Civil War, or the culture of the antebellum South, do you think you'd really understand Gone With the Wind? You know these things and bring them with you when you open the book to read, so you can interpret the novel correctly.

You just wrote several paragraphs that require no interpretation, I literally understood them with no problem at all.

That's because you and I have enough shared information and common experience that we can have this discussion. Bring somebody in with no background in Armstrongism or Adventism or even Christianity, who has never read a Bible, and have them listen over our shoulders -- he's not going to understand what we're talking about, or even why it's important to us. Somebody would have to explain things to him.

However, I don't believe the "apostolic succession" story at all and just about everyone knows that the Psalms do not say what Peter says about a thousand years being one day in a future sense.

It's not a direct quote, but it's accepted that Peter (or the unknown author impersonating Peter, as many prefer, though without adequate grounds) was referring to Psalm 89 and applying what it says about God's "perception" of time to the situation in his day.

When Jesus said "this generation" he did not mean a god generation,

Yes, He probably meant "generation" in the sense of "gens" or people.

when he said "soon" and "at hand" he did not mean thousands of years, because he was talking to humans not gods.

He comes in every moment.

When the scribes copied the copies of the NT it was easier to leave it pretty much as is, knowing that any problems could always be explained away

No, it was easier not to copy the New Testament books at all. (Handcopying books is very difficult work.) The less words to copy, the better -- so why not leave out the difficult and inconvenient bits, if they really mean what you say?

Everyone seems to be having trouble with their eme...

2008-04-19T16:16:00.000+12:00

Everyone seems to be having trouble with their emeRODS.We trust that in all this religious confusion they don't confuse Prep H with a certain proprietary Dental Cream.They could end up with shrunken gums and a ring of confidence.

And then of course there is "the botch of Egypt".Today we are afflicted with the "botch" of Weinland. An humungus botch-up as to his identity.

Herb noted the gunlap as being the terminal one. He forget about the "bur-lap", the time in which the two witnesses would be thus clothed. This,of course, will be one of the identifying signs of the two witnesses. One wonders if Ron is brave and humble enough to don this "hairshirt". I wonder if he will use recycled sacks or choose virgin cloth.

We live in interesting times.

Jorgheinz

Neo pondered:"I think the significant question is ...

2008-04-19T09:25:00.000+12:00

Neo pondered:

"I think the significant question is whether Tribulational Hemorrhoids are pre-rapture or post-rapture. (I should mention that I don't believe in The Rapture.)"

Pre Ruptural Hemorrhoidal Tribulatiory Beliefs are debatable. However Post Ruptural Hermorrhoids are certainly Tribulational and less subject to doubting and skepticism and stand up well to close scrutiny...ewww

Can you imagine Mrs Weinland as a teen in college sitting in an AC Bible Class imagining that someday, if she married the right minister, she and he would be the Two Witnesses of Revelation. I wonder if God went on grade point averages or what?

I think the significant question is whether Tribul...

2008-04-19T08:21:00.000+12:00

I think the significant question is whether Tribulational Hemorrhoids are pre-rapture or post-rapture. (I should mention that I don't believe in The Rapture.)

Does anyone know anything about Weinland's wife. I remember her at Big Sandy. It seems like she is an American girl that he met at Bricket Wood.

-- Neo

My WCG parrot just said: Bawk! Bawk!Weinland's a f...

2008-04-19T07:51:00.000+12:00

My WCG parrot just said:

Bawk! Bawk!

Weinland's a fraud! Weinland's a fraud!

Bawk! Bawk!

Weinland's a fraud! Weinland's a fraud!

>>And we all know that if any dissent "votes" were...

2008-04-19T06:02:00.000+12:00

>>And we all know that if any dissent "votes" were heard, the deacons would have escorted said "voters" right out of the Dwight Armstrong enhanced "voting booth"

Tkach might have fixed the WCG corporation member bylaws voting problem completely to his own satisfaction. Hide the bylaws and take away the WCG voting booth!

"Just take their gol darn grace-filled member vote away entirely!", he thought. "Much less muss and fuss dealing with those pesky lay members asking too many pointed questions" about an unaccountable Pastor General who accounts to no one except his imperial self.

Tkach, instead of calling for a member voe as he should have, called the very same type of amendment "voted for" in 1968 a restatement, which is legally questionable and challengeable. Now why couldn't Stanley Rader have thought of that: Eliminate the member's votes with the bylaws loophole Tkach is now waltzing through.

Stan

"Does this possibly mean that ronnie is simply giv...

2008-04-19T05:47:00.000+12:00

"Does this possibly mean that ronnie is simply giving HIMSELF lots of rope to wriggle out of, regarding things he's said will happen?"

Have you not read? The Bible has more than enough rope for RW to quote.

Genesis 3:

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you two?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I haven't been right up to this point; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you that you have not been right up to this point." Have you appointed your wife or some woman as the second witness?"

12 The man said, Well, sorta, BUT THE WOMAN, YOU PUT HERE WITH ME—SHE gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it. She also said that if I didn't make her the second witness there would be hell to pay"

13 "Oh, sorry about that."
Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"

The woman said, "Err, ummm The serpent deceived me, and I took the job."

And the Serpent said, "The hell I did!

So see, from scripture, we can pass the burden of foolishness along the chain of command and once again prove that we men can be glad we were not born female!

The "rope to hang themselves with" was in response...

2008-04-19T05:06:00.000+12:00

The "rope to hang themselves with" was in response to my comments about Mike McConnell giving Weinland free reign on the air, in other words (I said) giving him (Weinland) "enough rope to hang himself with metaphorically."

Portune, in a television interview, declared that ...

2008-04-19T05:03:00.000+12:00

Portune, in a television interview, declared that no such meeting occurred.

When I asked Rader about the document, he explained that 'it was probably a sabbath and each minister in the area read the proposed amendment to the members at the service that day, and since there was no voice of dissent, they were recorded as affirmative votes.'

And we all know that if any dissent "votes" were heard, the deacons would have escorted said "voters" right out of the Dwight Armstrong enhanced "voting booth".

Anonymous said... There was a grove st. on the ...

2008-04-19T04:54:00.001+12:00

Anonymous said...

There was a grove st. on the campus that became a walkway which is why it is not listed.

I think you are correct on that. That's probably the granite stone walkway that was also a firelane.

Yes, Weinlandwatch, that was indeed anti climatic....

2008-04-19T04:54:00.000+12:00

Yes, Weinlandwatch, that was indeed anti climatic.
So, the second witness is named as Laura his wife. Maybe all the folks who thought as much have the gift of prophecy, too!

Oops. Sorry. There's only one prophet, R Dubya, because R Dubya says so.

I couldn't help but notice the statement from R Dubya saying,

"...God gives plenty of rope to those who seek to find fault with Him and His people."

Does this possibly mean that ronnie is simply giving HIMSELF lots of rope to wriggle out of, regarding things he's said will happen?

Funny how those cult leaders claim to never do anything wrong, while claiming that any perceived mistakes were all the fault of their sheep. And the questioners have a sceptre hanging over their heads from Almighty God for having questioned His Unquestionable Servant!

Hmmmmm......

@ RW: The Seventh Seal has been opened and now the...

2008-04-19T04:25:00.000+12:00

@ RW: The Seventh Seal has been opened and now the First Trumpet has been blown. You will want to listen to the sermon given this Sabbath to learn much more @

Has anyone noticed Seals 1 to 6? Who's hiding in a cave?

And one more thing...May I suggest a good listen t...

2008-04-19T03:32:00.000+12:00

And one more thing...

May I suggest a good listen to Bart Ehrman's lecture on the NT by any and all. None of us would be here of been there had we understood this to begin with. Dr. E himself went through the same process to get from there to hear as we find ourselves doing depending.

http://otagosh.blogspot.com/

Invest 90 minutes in Biblical reality for future sanity and as a way to relieve the "what if he is right" problem of prophetic narcissists.

"....peradventure he will lighten his hand from of...

2008-04-19T03:27:00.000+12:00

"....peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. -- 1 Samuel 6:4-5
"

please not that YHVH, being jealous and all, was still competing with their gods at this time. God's with hemmorrhoids can really mess up their receptivity to the cries of the faithful.

Neo opined (behold, I blame him not!) and noted: "...

2008-04-19T03:23:00.000+12:00

Neo opined (behold, I blame him not!) and noted:

"Maybe the Tribulation has begun. My hemorrhoids really flared up yesterday.

The Plain Truth and Solution to Tribulational Hemorrhoids.

"If you disobey the Old Testament's laws, God will give you hemorrhoids (along with other nasty things).

The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. -- Deuteronomy 28:27

Obviously Preparation H had not yet come on the scene.

"God smote an entire city (Asdod) with "emerods [hemorrhoids] in their secret parts."

"the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts." -- 1 Samuel 5:6-7

"And the men that died not were smitten with the emerods: and the cry of the city went up to heaven." 1 Samuel 5:12

I imagine it did! No ifs, ands or butts.

However, there is a solution: Expensive but effetive no doubt, 'cause it's in the Bible.

"...Then he ordered the same city to make him five golden hemorrhoids (and five golden mice) as a "trespass offering."

What shall be the trespass offering which we shall return to him? They answered, Five golden emerods, and five golden mice ... Wherefore ye shall make images of your emerods, and images of your mice that mar the land; and ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. -- 1 Samuel 6:4-5

What more can I say :)

The theory of energy anatomy would indicate that if the idea of someone or something gives you hemmorrhoids, the topic is a pain in the..... to one, and manifests itself as such.

We all have them!

Well now that we know it's Mrs. Ron...we know she'...

2008-04-19T03:12:00.000+12:00

Well now that we know it's Mrs. Ron...we know she'll have to be under his guidance and if she has any questions, she should ask her husband, I believe is the criteria for NT women.

Ron noted:

"I’ve had difficulty getting this post on the website completed, as I have had some strange technical difficulties that we still have not fully figured out. But after a call back to the states, I have been able to use a different method than normal for getting this done."

It's the Mossad XP you're probably running into trouble with. Change to Vista (just kidding) and open your eyes Ron. Try to see things outside of the movies that play in your head with the Script of Revelation tainting everything you observe.

What's the combined income of a husband and wife Two Witness team?

Johnny Harrell:

"Oh man, I came all the way over here hoping against hope but ohhhhh noooooooo, you gives it to da little woman. How the hell am I suppose to go back to church now with my manhood intact?"

Oh, my apologies to Neo - I didn't want to imply i...

2008-04-19T02:41:00.000+12:00

Oh, my apologies to Neo - I didn't want to imply in my last post that his hemorrhoids really flaring up yesterday wasn't an end time event of tribulation.

Richard

According to Wienland's website, the second witnes...

2008-04-19T02:34:00.000+12:00

According to Wienland's website, the second witness has now been revealed:

"Having said that, more will be said in the months to come, but now is the time to publicly reveal the name of the second end-time witness. It is my wife Laura".

MY COMMENT: Boy is this guy ever delusional!

What ever happen to old time WCG doctrine of women being silent and not being permitted to preach? Let's see, women can't preach in Sabbath Services, but they can be one of the two final witnesses dressed in sackcloth and calling fire down from heaven?

Well, the 17th of April has past with nothing eventful (surprise, surprise), and I guess Weinland will have to put some sort of spin on things to keep the suckers (ooops, I mean godly tithe payers) from abandoning him with their wallets.

Or maybe the guy just wanted a free vacation to Jerusalem and didn't know any other way to finance it!

Richard

Maybe the Tribulation has begun. My hemorrhoids re...

2008-04-19T02:33:00.000+12:00

Maybe the Tribulation has begun. My hemorrhoids really flared up yesterday.

One of the ploys that Weinland may use to sidestep criticism is to suddenly proclaim that he is receiving direct communications from God and that God has modified the schedule. This covers up his error or charade or whatever it was and at the same time increases his stature in the minds of his followers.

What we can be sure of is that none of his followers will say "I go fishing." And Weinland knew this already. To be convinced of the continuing dedication of Weinland's followers, watch some of the TV interviews of the FLDS women -- same thing. It is eerie and at the same time very familiar.

-- Neo

"Some have been overly anxious and finding fault w...

2008-04-19T02:14:00.000+12:00

"Some have been overly anxious and finding fault with this not having been posted early in the day. This fits in quite well with the sermon that will be given this Sabbath, as God gives plenty of rope to those who seek to find fault with Him and His people."

Ronnie is already in damage control mode, cutting off any criticism before it can even begin. I'll bet he spends a large portion of the Sabbath sermon railing against those who are 'weak in the faith' and who 'doubt and question.'

When it comes to manipulation, I have nothing but awe for these guys. They're good- damn good. Of course, Ronnie and Pack probably learned at the feet of HWA, but still, it takes effort.

The Apostate Paul

The Two Witnesses may be no-shows but Ronnie has d...

2008-04-19T02:00:00.000+12:00

The Two Witnesses may be no-shows but Ronnie has decided to release the name of the second witless a day early.

Well that was anti-climactic.

So - I get up this morning and discover:1. Ironwol...

2008-04-19T01:47:00.000+12:00

So - I get up this morning and discover:

1. Ironwolf's Weinland Final Daze Countdown Clock has expired;
2. The Pope is not peeved;
3. No German or EU troops in my neighborhood;
4. No mushroom-shaped clouds in the sky;
5. No newly dead honchos from the various xcg's;
6. No thunder(s)
7. The Two Witnesses are no-shows.

I realize that, somehow, this must all be my fault. I probably should send someone some money. And, I gotta go to work - AGAIN! What a Great Disappointment - AGAIN!

Late breaking news:Prophet Ronnie the Terrible str...

2008-04-19T01:36:00.000+12:00

Late breaking news:
Prophet Ronnie the Terrible strikes first blow at USA. 5.2 earthquake hits midwest. The doomday clock is now at 59 seconds and counting down, REPENT!!!

I'm John POPE, and yesterday, April 17, I was quit...

2008-04-19T01:11:00.000+12:00

I'm John POPE, and yesterday, April 17, I was quite peeved with Ron Weinland, but I got over it.