Comments on Ambassador Watch: Bye bye BI

An IT headhunter used to tell me, IBM never had th...

2008-07-27T17:07:00.000+12:00

An IT headhunter used to tell me, IBM never had the best products, just the best marketing.

Herb claimed for his “fill-in” spots on radio he talked about “blessings on the descendents of Abraham” and for that he got a lot of requests for information. The Pacific northwest, according to some, was at that time rife with KKK, BI and other racist activities.

I believe Flurry said The US and Britain In Prophecy (for which he gained the copyright) was the most requested piece of literature.

If BI sells the product, it doesn’t matter if it true or not. It happened before, with another plagiarized book, The Proof of the Bible.

on Sun Jul 27, 02:55:00 PM NZSTByker Bob said...:-...

2008-07-27T17:04:00.000+12:00

on Sun Jul 27, 02:55:00 PM NZST
Byker Bob said...:-
"...NONE of them embrace British Israelism. That should be a very significant fact, a fact that causes Armstrongists to ask a few belated questions."

Maybe it's because deep down, as the saying goes, they believe the Torah is their exclusive domain, and that non-Jews are only required to keep the so called Noahide law.
I have found that the followers of Judaism, admittedly not messianics, believe that the Jews alone constitute the NATION of Israel, as distinct from the present day State:-

"1) For the purposes of this debate, Jew and Israel are henceforth to be synonymous."
Quoted by an adherant of Judaism from his own blog.

Maybe the messianics believe the same, so why should they bother with BI.
I don't know any messianics whom I can ask.

Taking my youngest child as an example:She is of R...

2008-07-27T15:25:00.000+12:00

Taking my youngest child as an example:

She is of Russian, Czech, Italian, Irish, French, German, and English background. Pray tell, what tribe is she?

People that believe in BI are idiots. I'm not sorry to be blunt about it either. They are clutching at straws.

Anyone who has watched Trinity Broadcast Network k...

2008-07-27T14:55:00.000+12:00

Anyone who has watched Trinity Broadcast Network knows that Christians absolutely love Israel, and Jewish people. Most of the people who visit Israel these days are Christian people.

On TBN, there is a definite presence of Messianic Jews. Whether we are speaking of Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, Dr. Perry Stone, or Sid Roth (and there are others whose name does not immediately come to mind), NONE of them embrace British Israelism. That should be a very significant fact, a fact that causes Armstrongists to ask a few belated questions.

If BI had a scintilla of truth behind it, why would not these people be embracing it? Without a doubt, it would enhance their messages. Yet, none of them will take such a bold step. Could it be that they recognize that this would be an absolutely ridiculous and indefensable position to take? I think so!!!

BB

Or Nazi myths about the Master Race.That was all s...

2008-07-27T12:34:00.000+12:00

Or Nazi myths about the Master Race.

That was all settled in that two part episode on Voyager: "We own Europe -- we were here for a thousand years before the other races invaded, before the Romans and before the Christians".

If you're so all fired superior, why did you fall twice to the Allies? The real superiority of "The Master Race" that they were alcoholics who had beer steins the size of wastebaskets and could drink any other race under the table, pretty much.

And as for the German Nazi on Voyager? He was a hologram. So much for being a representative of the superior "Master Race". And to boot, Janeway won the war.

So much for genetics, genome, DNA and BI -- there's as much validity in the BI as Herbert Armstrong's prognostications.

Christians are admonished to try the spirits and prove all things. If they had done that before joining the Radio Church of God / WCG, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Larry:Abscence? Surely you meant absence?By this ...

2008-07-27T10:17:00.000+12:00

Larry:

Abscence? Surely you meant absence?

By this standard you couldn't rule out Mormon myths about the Lost Tribes either. Or Nazi myths about the Master Race. You could believe whatever you wanted.

How convenient.

Ned

Interesting that DNA tracing has been brought into...

2008-07-27T09:59:00.000+12:00

Interesting that DNA tracing has been brought into the argument. I know more than a little bit about this subject. And it is safe to say that there is plenty of room for discussion and/or disagreement. When dealing with science, I recommend the old axiom:

Abscence of evidence is not evidence of abscence.

Think about that.

Questeruk said...There is a ‘laymans’ article in N...

2008-07-27T06:45:00.000+12:00

Questeruk said...

There is a ‘laymans’ article in New Scientist 12th July issue on this very subject – one interesting quote gives the theme of the article.

“The realisation that individuals can acquire characteristics through interaction with their environment and then pass these on to their offspring may force us to rethink evolutionary theory.”

How funny! :-P Using Larmarkian evolutionary theory in an attempt to prove the British Israelism.

I guess that shows BI is a more closely held belief than creationism!

A semite, is still a semite, whether they live in California, the Yukon, or downtown Tel Aviv.

Any environmental adaptation is not going to change that.

The genome project proves that DNA is altered by w...

2008-07-27T05:35:00.000+12:00

The genome project proves that DNA is altered by where you live?

LaMark kept cutting the tails of rats and the rats had offspring with shorter tails. Gregor Johann Mendel be damned. It's this unnatural selection stuff....

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, t...

2008-07-27T05:15:00.000+12:00

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser:

Let's see now... The Apostle Paul was of the trive of Benjamin, Levi and Judah are accounted for and Asher.... Well, it must be the 9 lost tribes of Israel then.

Oops -- James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James knew where the 12 tribes were. Ten of them didn't just disappear during the captivity.

Oh, but there are two "lost tribes" given [or not given] in Revelation 7: Dan and Ephraim are not there.

Those of you who are so stupid to think you are Ephraim, we have news for you: You don't get salvation [for the most part].

This does, however, as Byker Bob points out, beg the question. Salvation is of the Jews only because of Jesus Christ [for those who are Biblically oriented]. Physical nations are pretty much irrelevant in the Spiritual realm. And anyway, it really becomes irrelevant when we get to Revelation 22. No more physical tribes. Imagine that. And the liars won't be there.

One more thing needs addressing: DNA testing shows that the Jews and Arabs have a common father somewhere along the lines. The Jews and western Europeans do not. That should settle that question, no matter what "facts" anyone wants to pull out of the irrelevant human genome project -- a fact conveniently excised by card toting delusional Armstrongists who have a stake in their distorted perceptions of committed resources they would lose if they admitted the truth.

It's clear that people have to buy into British Israelism to connect with Herbert Armstrong's prophecies based upon it, but should note that his record of fulfilled prophecies is unimpressive, leading us all to the inevitable conclusion that he is a false prophet and resoundingly rejected by Jesus Christ who said to beware of such.

So it's time for Dr. Bob to blow the dust off his Bible and leave the false prophets behind. If he can't, he's one sick puppy, no matter how good his pictures look.

Insert the sound of wild applause here. Very well-...

2008-07-27T04:33:00.000+12:00

Insert the sound of wild applause here. Very well-put Gavin!

Why is such an important booklet placed near the b...

2008-07-27T03:59:00.000+12:00

Why is such an important booklet placed near the bottom of UCG's booklet list ?

Why is this "revelation" that "lays bare the future" being so obscured by "God's Org" ?

Truth is, this embarrassing clunker is on its way out at the most progressive of the Armstrong orgs

bye bye BI, in your dreams ;-)looks like this one ...

2008-07-27T03:22:00.000+12:00

bye bye BI, in your dreams ;-)

looks like this one backfired on you Gavin.

and so it goes.

Ralph said..."So, where does logic come into it? T...

2008-07-27T01:23:00.000+12:00

Ralph said..."So, where does logic come into it? The Russians and the Chinese would be in it for the money and the Iranians to rustle up their 12th Imam or Mahdi."

MY COMMENT: I was just being facetious. I see no logic in anything that Collins writes. Just another man who thinks he's an important educator of the masses trying to make a buck.

In response to Robert's last post:I would rather b...

2008-07-26T22:59:00.000+12:00

In response to Robert's last post:

I would rather be the offspring of two apes than be a man and afraid to face the truth.
— Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1895)

>>>The Genome Project does disprove BI.Th...

2008-07-26T22:32:00.000+12:00

>>>The Genome Project does disprove BI.

The Genome Projects proves that YOU are descended from an APE having similarity to human genes by 98%.

Far from destroying my faith in the British Israel theory, the Genome Project just proves what a bunch of monkeys that actually believe in the project!

on Sat Jul 26, 01:16:00 AM NZST Steve commented:-"...

2008-07-26T15:45:00.000+12:00

on Sat Jul 26, 01:16:00 AM NZST
Steve commented:-
"So, Russia, China, and Iran know where the lost ten tribes are? I guess they would have to...in order for LOGIC to prevail."

So, where does logic come into it? The Russians and the Chinese would be in it for the money and the Iranians to rustle up their 12th Imam or Mahdi.

Corky said... The Genome Project does disprove BI....

2008-07-26T15:10:00.000+12:00

Corky said...

The Genome Project does disprove BI.

There are two significant things that the Genome Project has shown.

1.) There are no different races of people. We are all one race, which is the human race.

2.) We all migrated across the planet from a starting point in Africa.

Corny,

According to the Bible, we are all descended from Adam and Eve, who got expelled from the garden of Eden. Later, the human race got thinned down to Noah's family by the great flood. Their ark landed in the mountains of Ararat (or Urartu). Noah's descendants split into different peoples who today do not all look the same and do not all get along with each other.

A couple books that I saw about DNA studies actually seemed to confirm part of the Bible and BI.

You remind me of a former WCG member who knew nothing at all about "ethnographic studies and DNA research" yet wanted to imagine that such things had somehow disproved BI. What he really wanted was to get away from the laws of God so that he could go on sinning wildly.

If anything ever comes of that Genome Project, I would be interested in hearing about it. In the meantime, what is the point of godless people carelessly making up false claims about it?

The Genome Project does disprove BI.There are two ...

2008-07-26T05:45:00.000+12:00

The Genome Project does disprove BI.

There are two significant things that the Genome Project has shown.

1.) There are no different races of people. We are all one race, which is the human race.

2.) We all migrated across the planet from a starting point in Africa.

Those migrations have been traced and all those nations/peoples that are asserted to be "the ten lost tribes of Israel" were already in existence tens of thousands of years before Israel even became a nation. Therefore they cannot possibly be the "ten lost tribes".

Simply by looking up the people of Assyria in any encyclopedia we know that the Assyrian people are still Assyrian and didn't even begin to migrate into Europe until after WWI.

People who believe the theory of BI are just too lazy to pick up an encyclopedia.

In CG7's latest Bible Advocate, an article, Divisi...

2008-07-26T01:30:00.000+12:00

In CG7's latest Bible Advocate, an article, Division and Reunion: 1933 - 1963, mentions HWA's defrocking for his promoting a number of teachings, including Anglo-Israelism.

Bob Thiel takes exception to CG7 stepping out of character by pegging the WCG as an exclusive cult. Possibly prompted by the BI post, Bob notes that he has a work in progress on Apostolic proto-BI. I hope his scholarship is deeper than that of Dr Hoeh, who had gone down that path already. From memory, an example of Dr H's reasoning, using the book of James: James writes to the 12 tribes (Jas 1:1) and mentions wars (Jas 4:1). So the 12 tribes must be in the countries that were at war at the time the letter was written. The Apostles therefore knew where the Lost Tribes were.

Back to the BA article, there is a quote from The Story of the Church of God (Seventh Day) by Robert Coulter:

The division ... caused the membership and leadership much grief. Many members and prospects were discouraged by the frequent attacks one church launched on the other. In some instances, ministers switched organizations, bewildering their membership. In other cases, the membership became pawns in the struggle between ministers who were vying for their loyalty and support...

And that was when there were only two "splinters".

"Given the fact that Ezekiel 38 prophesies that Ru...

2008-07-26T01:16:00.000+12:00

"Given the fact that Ezekiel 38 prophesies that Russia, China and Iran"

MY COMMENT: So, it actually says, Russia, China, and Iran?

"will form an alliance in the latter days of our age"

MY COMMENT: OUR age? You mean, while we're still living? Three to five years? Thirty to fifty years? When?

"which will eventually attack the western nations peopled by the descendants of the ten tribes of Israel,"

MY COMMENT: Peopled, or sprinkled?

"this is a logical additional step in their attack strategy."

MY COMMENT: So, Russia, China, and Iran know where the lost ten tribes are? I guess they would have to...in order for LOGIC to prevail.

"Those who do not agree that the USA, Canada and many European nations are descended from the biblical ten tribes of Israel are in for a rude surprise in the future."

MY COMMENT: And, what if it doesn't happen? Herbie Wannabe Collins be in for a rude surprise...before he dies?

"Now that's a broad generalization I clearly don't...

2008-07-26T00:15:00.000+12:00

"Now that's a broad generalization I clearly don't fall under."

Actually, I was quite narrow, but I will broaden it to include athiests as those who believe in conspiracies.

poppycock Main Entry: pop·py·cock Pronunciati...

2008-07-25T23:23:00.000+12:00

poppycock

Main Entry: pop·py·cock
Pronunciation: \ˈpä-pē-ˌkäk\
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch dialect pappekak, literally, soft dung, from Dutch pap pap + kak dung

Take Roderick C. Meredith for example. Here's a cl...

2008-07-25T12:53:00.000+12:00

Take Roderick C. Meredith for example. Here's a clip from his July-August "personal" in Tomorrow's World."

"Many thousands (OK, THAT'S NOT REALLY MANY OUT OF BILLIONS I KNOW) of you know (WE TOLD YOU REMEMBER) that the British-descended and American peoples are, in fact,(OK, MAYBE I SHOULD SAY IN MY HABITUAL OPINION) the end-time (THREE TO FIVE BABY) remnant of the ancient "House of Israel" which was conquered by Assyria (MAYBE I'M THINKING ROME? OR DO I MEAN 3 MILLENIA?) more than two millennia ago, then was taken into national (EVEN INTERNATIONAL) captivity before it supposedly (AS MEN COUNT 'SUPPOSEDLY')" "disappeared."

Many scholars describe those "disappeared" nations as the "Ten Lost Tribes of Israel." (BUT I HAVE ALWAYS CALLED THEM THE TEN FOUND TRIBES.)But, although most historians lost sight of them, (BECAUSE MOST HISTORIANS ARE STUPID AND BLIND AND JUST A FEW ARE THE REALLY SMART ONES LIKE WE HERE AT LIVING U.) they did not disappear! Today, the descendants of those nations can be identified clearly (WELL OK, NOT AS CLEARLY AS ONE WOULD THINK) as the peoples of northwestern Europe, (NOT NE, I DON'T MEAN THAT!) Britain and the former Commonwealth nations, (NOT BLACK CONGO OR AFRICAN TYPES OF COURSE UNLESS CONQUERED BY WHITES IN THE 18TH CENTURY) and the United States. (WELL I MEAN THE WHITE PEOPLE. NOT THE BLACK, NATIVE AMERICANS, HISPANICS, MIDDLE EASTERN TYPES OR ANYONE ELSE WHO JUST WANDERED IN UNINVITED OR FALL OUTSIDE THE TEN TRIBE BOX. OK, WE DO ACCEPT CANADIANS IF NOT GERMANS, POLES OR LEFT OVER FROM CLOVIS PEOPLE.)

Truly, truly, Jesus loves the little children. All the children of the tribes.
White and white, white and white,
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the dark now white children of the tribes. :)

"Please send for your free booklet, "Just Why The Living Church of God Favors the 18th and 19th Century as the Key to Finding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel."

Also, the campanion booklet, "The Shocking Truth About Your Tight Fitting Genes and False Israelite DNA Readings."

re BI, there's an interesting article on Steven M ...

2008-07-25T10:24:00.000+12:00

re BI, there's an interesting article on Steven M Collins' website with the following as an exract:-

"Given the fact that Ezekiel 38 prophesies that Russia, China and Iran will form an alliance in the latter days of our age which will eventually attack the western nations peopled by the descendants of the ten tribes of Israel, this is a logical additional step in their attack strategy. Those who do not agree that the USA, Canada and many European nations are descended from the biblical ten tribes of Israel are in for a rude surprise in the future."

Found here:-
http://stevenmcollins.com/WordPress/?cat=3