Comments on Ambassador Watch: Richard, wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

From reading over the many comments here, I think ...

2009-05-09T16:17:00.000+12:00

From reading over the many comments here, I think I see the problem with a great many x-cog'ers.

God doesn't do things the way you think He should. That's your whole problem with Him, He isn't doing it the way you want Him to.

"I hope you aren't a teacher. If you are, let me k...

2009-05-09T11:01:00.000+12:00

"I hope you aren't a teacher. If you are, let me know so I can keep my kids out of your school."

Only if you promise to notify me if you are moving within 50 miles of my residence. I am glad we understand each other.

The Apostate Paul

Mark said... reconcile TrumanOkay, Truman was a ...

2009-05-09T09:14:00.000+12:00

Mark said...

reconcile TrumanOkay, Truman was a human being, a man defending his country in the best way he could.

God, otoh, is not a human being and can do anything - so, what's his excuse for murder? Considering that God could have converted the so-called "wicked" in an instant as he did Paul, how do you justify God's murderous actions?

Anonymous said . . . In context of eternity there ...

2009-05-09T08:23:00.000+12:00

Anonymous said . . .
In context of eternity there will come a resurrection to a secure, peaceful and fruitful human life for all.That's the rub though, isn't it? It wouldn't be a "human life". In fact, you don't have a clue what kind of "life" it would be and even Paul refused to describe it.

That's like someone offering you a job and not telling you what the job is or how much it pays or anything about the job - but if you take the job you can never quit. That's scary.

The thing is, there is no job and no pay, it's a hoax. Wanna buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

No human - of any age, from any age - 'suffers' mo...

2009-05-09T01:07:00.000+12:00

No human - of any age, from any age - 'suffers' more than a lifetime, however long or short it may be. In context of eternity there will come a resurrection to a secure, peaceful and fruitful human life for all.

"Okay, Truman was a psychopathic murderer." Reall...

2009-05-09T00:27:00.000+12:00

"Okay, Truman was a psychopathic murderer."

Really? Wow, now that's sick. How can you believe such a thing? You obviously have a very warped view on moral issues. I hope you aren't a teacher. If you are, let me know so I can keep my kids out of your school.

Since your views on moral issues are so messed up, we can't have a rational debate.

Okay, Truman was a psychopathic murderer. Now that...

2009-05-08T07:48:00.000+12:00

Okay, Truman was a psychopathic murderer. Now that's settled- back to your god. He is still a genocidal, psychopathic murderer. And you still condone his genocidal, psychopathic actions. You're still sick.

The Apostate Paul

"But we aren't talking about a war time human pres...

2009-05-08T02:58:00.000+12:00

"But we aren't talking about a war time human president. We are talking about your god, the god o' luv."

Yes, we are talking about Truman. By your logic, if my God is a murderer, then Truman is as well. After all, innocent children were killed in the bombings. Yet you keep sitting on the fence on this one. That tells me that you haven't logically thought through your argument and are avoiding it because you don't have a good answer.

It's incredible to me, as you scream Sick! Sick! Sick! to me, from someone who doesn't even believe in God, let alone did ANY of the things written in the OT, that you, who KNOW that Hiroshima happened, sit back and make excuses.

When you reconcile Truman, let me know. Perhaps apply some critical thinking on this.

"This is just a guess, but I'm thinking that you o...

2009-05-07T17:22:00.000+12:00

"This is just a guess, but I'm thinking that you once had a very intense and profound love for God. Your false church betrayed you, as it did all the rest of us..."

Apologist Bob,

I left the COG's not even thinking of the character of your god.

I then left mainstream christianity with the same disregard. It wasn't the character of your god that was as at stake, but the question of existence. That's all.

And I have said this before- even within this very thread. But you, like most christians, can't help but attribute disbelief in god/godesses to anger, bitterness, ect. It's a reverse demonization. You can't imagine that someone couldn't accept the existence of your god without any evidence, so there must be another reason why. Just as Herbert attributed a disregard for the law of moses to lustful rebelliousness, you lower rational, honest critical thinking to the level of an angry teenager on a ABC After School Special. And that's fine. Whatever gets you through the day. If it comforts you to believe that I am an angry human lashing out at that which I dont' understand, then so be it. If this belief takes the spotlight away from the deeds of your imaginary father, then more power to you.

*shrugs*

The Apostate Paul

(Who isn't mad at god, but is especially bitter toward Darth Vader and this is why he refuses to believe in the existence of Darth Vader)

Some have expressed that they feel the stories in ...

2009-05-07T08:34:00.000+12:00

Some have expressed that they feel the stories in the OT are fictional. Even if they are, God comes across as being loving, merciful, all knowing, patient, and just. He is totally justified in all that He does.

What if all the babies had been spared from the flood? If their parents had truly been looking out for them, they might have heeded Noah's warnings, and more humans would have been on the ark. Children are usually sanctified through their parents, but the opposite can be true, as well. Since the parents continued in their rebellion, the fate of the children was sealed. Can you imagine the Noah family raising all of the babies, even if the flood were only a semi-local Mesopotamian event?

Paul Ray, I don't know that I'd want to be a bridge burner to the extent that you are. Looking at it from your point of view, if there is so much as a scintilla of doubt in your mind that God might possibly exist, I should think you'd at least want to be neutral instead of downright hostile.

This is just a guess, but I'm thinking that you once had a very intense and profound love for God. Your false church betrayed you, as it did all the rest of us, so now all of that love has turned to an equally intense hatred, not at all typical of most atheists. I certainly hope you find healing.

BB

" God's enemies are/were those who have so parted ...

2009-05-07T07:11:00.000+12:00

" God's enemies are/were those who have so parted from true values that they burn their own children as a religious exercise and sink into total depravity and perversion"

Were the infants who died in the flood enemies of your god?

The Apostate Paul

"Any innocent child is with the Lord now, so that'...

2009-05-07T07:09:00.000+12:00

"Any innocent child is with the Lord now, so that's not too bad of a place to be, in my opinion."

Well. I'm glad we cleared this up. You condone global infant genocide at the hands of your god. Sick, sick, sick.

"Secondly, you can't bring yourself to call Truman a murderer, but God is? Right. That makes no sense and makes your argument moot."

I didn't say he wasn't. But more importantly, I didn't slavishly excuse his actions, nor did I hold him up as a paragon of love, compassion, and mercy.

But we aren't talking about a war time human president. We are talking about your god, the god o' luv.

"Thirdly, you don't believe any of the Bible anyway, so what is YOUR point with all of this? Attacking a God you don't believe in seems a bit silly from my perspective."

I'm trying to point out something to Christians that most of them have avoided thinking about. I am trying to get some of them to apply a little critical thinking. You never know what will happen.

The Apostate Paul

"I trust that you're willing to change your opinio...

2009-05-07T07:04:00.000+12:00

"I trust that you're willing to change your opinion as new facts surface."

Absolutely. I've said before that if any god shows his or herself, or at least provides evidence of their existence, then I will accept their existence. How can I not?

But whether I will worship that god or godess is another matter.

The Apostate Paul

"Apostate Paul, you give me a choice between your ...

2009-05-07T07:02:00.000+12:00

"Apostate Paul, you give me a choice between your judgment and that of Israel's God..."

Nope. I'm just pointing out that your god is a genocidal murderer, based on the bible.

The APostate Paul

"Unlike your god. If Truman were like your god, he...

2009-05-07T04:59:00.000+12:00

"Unlike your god. If Truman were like your god, he would have nuked Switzerland and Tibet, too. No, scratch that. If Truman were like your god, he would have nuked the whole planet."

Truman's/USA/UK enemy was a demagogue and those he assembled for world conquest. God's enemies are/were those who have so parted from true values that they burn their own children as a religious exercise and sink into total depravity and perversion 9cp Lev 18:24-25 and context).

AP surely has not so overthrown his faith that he airs the views on his blog!

"So we are back to were we left off- I asked you i...

2009-05-06T12:24:00.000+12:00

"So we are back to were we left off- I asked you if it is acceptable behavior for your god to murder almost every infant on the planet?"

First, God is creator of all, so yes, He can take life. He also gives life. Any innocent child is with the Lord now, so that's not too bad of a place to be, in my opinion.

Secondly, you can't bring yourself to call Truman a murderer, but God is? Right. That makes no sense and makes your argument moot.

Thirdly, you don't believe any of the Bible anyway, so what is YOUR point with all of this? Attacking a God you don't believe in seems a bit silly from my perspective.

Apostate Paul, you give me a choice between your j...

2009-05-06T11:19:00.000+12:00

Apostate Paul, you give me a choice between your judgment and that of Israel's God. That would be based, I suppose, upon your reputation in comparison with what we know of Israel's God from Hebrew Scriptures.

You're going to die in a few years, and -- at least in terms claimed in the Hebrew record -- God will continue living and watching over His creation in terms of justice, righteousness, wisdom, lovingkindness, patience, generosity, compassion, mercy and many other traits that believers place under the general heading of love.

You must feel you have a higher standard of decency than the Creator. I disagree, but I'm quite sure the Creator makes allowances for your doubting. You're a thinker, willing to take a stand. This has to be respected, I think, given what you understand from facts as you see them. I trust that you're willing to change your opinion as new facts surface.

We'll all eventually see how it plays out. Take care. Be strong.

"Furthermore, do you consider Truman a mass murder...

2009-05-06T07:03:00.000+12:00

"Furthermore, do you consider Truman a mass murderer for authorizing the use of the a-bomb on Hiroshima? That also killed many infants and children. You must."

So what point are you trying to make? That god was at war with the human race and all those infants and toddlers that died in the flood were collateral damage? I don't agree with the deaths of the Japanese children, I don't condone it. We were at war and Truman did what he thought best to bring an end to the war.

Unlike your god. If Truman were like your god, he would have nuked Switzerland and Tibet, too. No, scratch that. If Truman were like your god, he would have nuked the whole planet.

The Apostate Paul

"By your logic, then you must conclude that the St...

2009-05-06T06:50:00.000+12:00

"By your logic, then you must conclude that the State is liable for murder because they perform executions. That ALL taking of a human life is murder."

That's not my logic at all; you aren't paying attention. We are not discussing people who have committed a crime and fall under some sort of judgement. We are talking about infants who had committed no crime (unless you want to be even more reprehensible and drag out original sin).

So we are back to were we left off- I asked you if it is acceptable behavior for your god to murder almost every infant on the planet? If so, how do you justify this? Are you against abortion? If so, how do you justify this position when you worship a god who killed every infant and toddler on the planet?

Murder? So if your god kills every infant on the planet, it's not MURDER? Then pray tell, what exactly is it? Execution?

And if you were paying attention, you would have noticed in a prior response that I am for the death penalty.

The Apostate Paul

"I find no conflict between love and the Biblical ...

2009-05-06T05:11:00.000+12:00

"I find no conflict between love and the Biblical God. He is described there as compassionate, merciful, even affectionate and vulnerable -- but also just, and severe when circumstances call for it."

The infants which god murdered in the flood- what did they do to deserve execution? The Canaanite infants murdered by the sword of the Israelites at the command of your god- what did they do to deserve execution?

If you believe god is compassionate and merciful because he is described that way in the Bible, then why don't you also see him as a genocidal murderer, for he is also described that way in the Bible. Unless we have two different versions of Genesis.

Do you support the murder of infants and toddlers?
If not, then how can you support your god, who is a murderer of infants and toddlers?

THe APostate Paul

PH, I'm not hyperventilating and I know they are...

2009-05-06T05:07:00.000+12:00

PH,

I'm not hyperventilating and I know they aren't true. But they are useful in trying to make a point- that Christians worship not a fictional god o' love, but a god of death, of genocide. And that they agree/endorse the genocidal actions of this fictional god. This is disturbing.

The Apostate Paul

Furthermore, do you consider Truman a mass murdere...

2009-05-06T01:41:00.000+12:00

Furthermore, do you consider Truman a mass murderer for authorizing the use of the a-bomb on Hiroshima? That also killed many infants and children. You must.

"Do you understand? If not, let's try again. Your ...

2009-05-06T00:10:00.000+12:00

"Do you understand? If not, let's try again. Your god is a psychopathic murderer not because he allows infants to die, but because he personally murdered every infant on the planet in a big flood and ordered the murder of Canaanite infants (hundreds? thousands?)"

By your logic, then you must conclude that the State is liable for murder because they perform executions. That ALL taking of a human life is murder. Of course, if this were a court room, you would be tripping up on the definition of MURDER. You like to use the word MURDER, because it sounds good. That is your OPINION, but does not represent FACTS.

Is the death penalty murder? By your definition, it is. Why aren't U.S. governors hauled off to prison then for allowing it to happen?

"I didn't argue that your god is unjust because in...

2009-05-05T21:03:00.000+12:00

"I didn't argue that your god is unjust because infants die, but because he personally and directly murdered almost every infant on the planet in a Big Flood, and also ordered the murder of Canaanite infants."Paul, Paul, breathe man! Chillax!

The stories aren't true.

"Ah infants, the old argument that God is not just...

2009-05-05T09:52:00.000+12:00

"Ah infants, the old argument that God is not just because infants die. "

I didn't argue that your god is unjust because infants die, but because he personally and directly murdered almost every infant on the planet in a Big Flood, and also ordered the murder of Canaanite infants.
Do you understand? If not, let's try again. Your god is a psychopathic murderer not because he allows infants to die, but because he personally murdered every infant on the planet in a big flood and ordered the murder of Canaanite infants (hundreds? thousands?)
Is this acceptable behavior to you? If so, how can you justify it?

"Yet, millions of infants die each year at the hands of doctors..."

Well, they have that in common with your god, don't they? Of course, they have a lot of catching up to do if they want to reach the body count your god has racked up.

"and you, I would believe, are for this, are you not? Are you for or against abortion? What is your stand on abortion? Should we kill the unborn or not? What do you have to say about that?"

Why do you assume I am for abortion? I don't care for it- it's a waste of human life. What is your view? Are you for it or against it? If you are against it, how do you reconcile the fact that your god is the world's greatest murderer of infants? He has no problem with killing the unborn. Isn't a bit hypocritical to be against human mediated abortion but for abortion when your god does it?

"If there is no God, then abortion is OK, in all forms, including late term. Is that murder? What is murder anyway? What is a self-professed atheist's view on abortion?"

You are sick, your mind is diseased. Totally amoral. The only reason you see abortion, or murder in general, as wrong is because your god says it is wrong. You should be locked up. You are a psychopath, like your god.

The Apostate Paul