Comments on Ambassador Watch: The Death-throes of Armstrongism

Now, now, if things go just right, there will be a...

2016-08-26T05:49:04.496+12:00

Now, now, if things go just right, there will be a swelling influx of membership. Look, we already covered this last year.

The truth is that Armstrongism is a collection of mostly boozing alcoholics. If there's one thing that will keep the sects of the cult together, it's the Feast of Booze and everything associated with it, like strong drink. The liquor stores never seemed to have enough.

By mid century, the Armstrongists will be reduced to the lowest common denominator and that will be drinking. It's a social club which is salubricated with alcohol. Most of the ministers are drunks and not necessarily closet ones either.

All the ACoGs need to do is to concentrate on what they do best and what keeps them together -- it's addiction -- and, darn it all, if they focus on priorities and their strengths, namely boozing it up, they will not only maintain but grow as the next generation of alcoholics inherit the reigns of what was started by Herbert Armstrong.

The future is bright indeed!

If a bit blurry, as the ACoGs stagger forward.

Skeptic: You got it. I made a comment that cause...

2016-08-24T10:37:44.004+12:00

Skeptic:

You got it. I made a comment that caused the thread to veer off-course. And to you it seemed like you walked in during the middle of the movie. But the original thread was also like walking into the middle of a movie - my whole point. So it doesn't make a lot of difference.

OK, now I get it. It's Wendy Keller from the ...

2016-08-24T07:59:38.082+12:00

OK, now I get it. It's Wendy Keller from the prior thread. Why are you carrying that discussion over into this thread. It seems like that thread got hijacked into discussing Wendy's credibility rather than the original point - why hijack this thread also?

Regarding your last point, perhaps your story and Wendy's simply involved different individuals. Not every higher-up at AC was evil. Some tried to do the right thing. That doesn't make Wendy's story untrue.

It could also be a difference in eras. Wendy's experience was probably widespread in the 1960's and 1970's. While there were still some aberrant individuals in the 80's and the 90's, I believe the church improved during that period in this one area. I'm no Tkach fan, but give Tkach some credit for this. We had an abusive pastor in my church area: people wrote to Pasadena and Joe Tkach Sr. called this man to Pasadena and read him the riot act. I can't imagine that happening under HWA. The Tkach regime definitely tried to address this type of problem area.

Pam: Nothing you have cited bears on the issue...

2016-08-23T16:31:36.922+12:00

Pam:

Nothing you have cited bears on the issue. A lawyer would object to this as being "non-responsive" in court.

Since this event took place in private, nobody knows it is true except Wendy Keller and the alleged perpetrator. This is fine. I make statements all the time that are not something I can't prove to anyone because only I was a witness. but this condition is also open to disbelief as well as belief and in equal measure.

I knew a department manager at AC-BS who liked to touch AC coeds. One coed became fed up with this and went to the President of the College. The President told her that if she wanted him to, he would fire the man immediately. The coed requested that he be given another chance. This is an event that for me is hearsay. Other AC employees told me about it. But the department manager desisted in his touching. So something happened to change his behavior. This is a counterpoint to Keller's story and informs us that this kind of thing was not uniformly present through the WCG/AC community.

Skeptic: Don't ask that kind of question (...

2016-08-23T15:26:02.222+12:00

Skeptic:

Don't ask that kind of question ("Who's Keller"). You will be targeted for all kinds of gratuitous abuse.

"A little bit too much melodrama." Yeah...

2016-08-23T14:49:38.951+12:00

"A little bit too much melodrama."

Yeah, NEO. Ya know how women are...they are just so prone to making up melodrama just to get attention, ya can't trust it when they tell stories of men in positions of authority and power doing disgusting, reprehensible, ridiculous things. (Especially men with titles like "pastor" and "priest" in front of their name.) Why, how could they ever get away with such things? Too risky. No sensible man in a position of authority would risk his career and reputation to dabble in being a conscienceless, lecherous jerk.

I mean, who on earth would believe the melodrama of the President of the United states requesting a blow job RIGHT IN THE Oval Office? :) How silly is it that anyone would believe such a story? Nobody would buy the screen rights to such a script, even for a XXX rated movie because its just too outlandish.

And who would ever believe someone as famous and lovable as Bill Cosby could possibly expose himself stark naked to a young woman in his own home, with his wife in the house, and sexually attack her. Nah. Couldn't have happened.

And of course, who on earth could believe a man as famous and dynamic and productive in spreading "the gospel" as Herbert Armstrong, admired by potentates all over the world and adored by sycophants in his organization, could prey on his own teenage daughter and force her into a decade long sexual mess? WAY WAY WAY too melodramatic to believe.

You suppose Keller even invented the story of the death of her children? I mean, her life story is just way too tragic to really believe.

Yep. Way too much melodrama. (You must have led a very sheltered life. As a pastor's wife for a decade I heard WAY more melodrama than this ... verifiable melodrama. But suit yourself.)

Who's Keller and what does he have to do with ...

2016-08-23T14:20:13.010+12:00

Who's Keller and what does he have to do with this thread?

And you all are right. After I reconsidered Kelle...

2016-08-23T10:41:06.891+12:00

And you all are right. After I reconsidered Keller's story, I do have my doubts.
A little bit too much melodrama.

As long as there are white supremacists with low s...

2016-08-23T10:37:12.468+12:00

As long as there are white supremacists with low self-esteem, Armstrongism will never become extinct. As long as there are people who want to believe they know something that everyone else doesn't, Arstrongism will not become extinct. It supplies a particular weird demand.

It may morph, however, but it will not abandon certain fundamentals like BI. The racism is what the Armstrongist base wants.

Basically, Armstrongism will most likely end up as...

2016-08-23T05:59:56.244+12:00

Basically, Armstrongism will most likely end up as a footnote to the Seventh Day Adventist movement, or, assuming that COG-7 enjoys better survival, to COG-7. If historians in the future so much as examine the literature, they will realize that HWA, in his personality cult, didn't even bother to paraphrase many of the materials which he had received from COG-7.

BB

Is the situation much different in many mainstream...

2016-08-22T23:55:59.728+12:00

Is the situation much different in many mainstream churches? The millennials are the least religiously affiliated group in history. The growth in membership of the Methodists Church is coming from Africa, while the U.S. Methodist Church has been declining for the past forty years. They cling to their traditions much like the ACOGs do. Their goal is to maintain the system and for all the money that they take in, they have little impact on the world, much like the ACOG's. I think that all churches are in desperate need of another major reformation.