Comments on Ambassador Watch: A Flurry of foolishness

anonymous:I voted for the ba$tard twice...somethin...

2007-11-01T02:14:00.000+13:00

anonymous:

I voted for the ba$tard twice...something I have come to seriously regret. It was the right thing to do the first time around...a mistake the second.

How can you free your friends that voted for Bush?

Try having them read Washington's farewell address. They'll figure out where we Americans jumped the tracks from reading that.

"3) I still have two people that I love very much ...

2007-10-31T14:29:00.000+13:00

"3) I still have two people that I love very much that are in Hulme's version of armstrong's nightmare and they also dabble in Coulter's as well because Coulter is still fixated on prophecy. When I free them, you will no longer have to hear from me on these sites. Of course you have the option of not coming here at all."

Yeah, and I have friends who are Evangelical Protestants... and they voted for Bush !!!

How can I free them?

Smilinjacksprat & Tom,A few items to note:1) I hav...

2007-10-31T04:56:00.000+13:00

Smilinjacksprat & Tom,

A few items to note:

1) I have moved on from armstrongism and am very happy where I am.

2) Your argument(s) again, do not hold water. The Nazi's are gone and so are the death camps and the Israeli's / jews have another enemy to deal with. Armstrongism is still here. I would imagine that if your Israeli friend still had friends or family in a concentration camp, he would not feel inclined to avoid 'rehashing' the past.

3) I still have two people that I love very much that are in Hulme's version of armstrong's nightmare and they also dabble in Coulter's as well because Coulter is still fixated on prophecy. When I free them, you will no longer have to hear from me on these sites. Of course you have the option of not coming here at all.

4) Tom - You still haven't answered any questions put to you, yet you continue to roll out your judgements on everyone here. You are still acting like a man frightened of something.

5) armstrongism is a toxic and parasitic religion that slowly but surely poisons everything that it comes in contact with.

Anonymous said... "And it has been 21 years...You ...

2007-10-31T04:11:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...

"And it has been 21 years...

You need to make peace, stay away from Christian fundamentalists, and move on...

You really do need to move on..."

Yes, you do need to move on, but you won't will you? That's why we're not.

Yes, it's been 21 years since ol' Herb kicked the bucket and it's been 32 years since I left his cult. At least I'm out of it, which is more than you can say and I have moved on, which is also more than you can say.

That doesn't, however, mean I have forgotten and I promise you, we never will forget - so move on.

"You need to make peace, stay away from Christian ...

2007-10-31T03:54:00.000+13:00

"You need to make peace, stay away from Christian fundamentalists, and move on...

You really do need to move on..."

I made peace years ago. I stay away from fundamentalists of all stripes as much as I can, although I will from time to time have discussions with them.

I moved on long ago. Just because I and others here talk about the Armstrongite experience doesn't mean that we are psychologically trapped in it. I have a life that is completely removed from those old days.

Tom,Your views are the flatulence of Fascism.: A a...

2007-10-31T03:39:00.000+13:00

Tom,

Your views are the flatulence of Fascism.: A authoritarian religious ideology (generally tied to a cultist group) that considers individual and other church interests subordinate to the interests of the church leadership. Fascists seek to forge a type of church unity through oppression and coercion, usually based on ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes.

Fascism uses explicit populist rhetoric; calls for a heroic mass effort to restore past greatness; and demands loyalty to a single leader, leading to a cult of personality and unquestioned obedience to orders.

Now go in peace Tom and bow before your idol Herbert W. Armstrong. For in him is your opiate and strength!

SJS>>There is little time for advancement when mor...

2007-10-30T23:22:00.000+13:00

SJS

>>There is little time for advancement when morbidly absorbed in the wrongs of past experiences.<<

Indeed! But I suspect that your words like mine will fall on death ears. The cabal of Douglas, Charlie, Stinger, Gavin and others have become ship wrecked on the jagged rocks of bitterness and despair, from which, sadly, there is no means of escape.

>>>Yet even if the experience for some were almost altogether terrible, is the present served by interminable crying over the past?<<<

Not to the Chosen Vessel. For he was inspired to write: "Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus"(Phils.3:13-14).

Anyone who is of the same mindset as the Chosen Vessel, doesn't have time to wallow in the past, however painful in might have been.

>>>A dead man's past errors should not be allowed to haunt the present -- nor should his errors be seen as the only part of his legacy. A completely honest appraisal should measure both debits and credits.<<<

Will the cabal listen? I doubt it. They get a special pleasure from being pretended martyrs of so-called Armstrongism.

>>>If we made wrong choices in the past, we made them. It hardly makes sense to blame a dead man for our poor choices, if indeed they were poor.<<<

The cabal will have none of this, I can assure you. For even though they were not conscripted or coerced in to becoming member of WCG, and they were free to leave at any time, they still trumpet that they were detained against their will. They have obviously been blinded by bitterness.

If I may say so, your post was a breath of fresh air on beautiful, cold winter's morning. And it confirms that however evil and insane the world is, there are still a few people with a godlike mind to bring a balance perspective to the confusion that threatens to overwhelm us.

Tom Mahon

I just got off the phone with an Israeli who grew ...

2007-10-30T20:39:00.000+13:00

I just got off the phone with an Israeli who grew up on a kibbutz where virtually all the parents were holocaust survivors. Almost all of them still bear tattooed numbers on their forearms that cannot help but remind them of their years in death camps. Surely their experiences at the very least equaled the real or imagined horrors of "Armstrongism." I jest, poorly, but with a point.

He told me the world is changing so fast now that there is no time to waste rehashing WW2. For survival's sake they dare not forget; but staying abreast of this rapidly changing world provides no time for wallowing in victimhood. They're much too busy building and defending a new country, turning deserts into fertile gardens, pushing the cutting edges of medicine and technology forward, developing agriculture, making sea-water sweet -- and trying their best to love their neighbors as themselves. (Yes, that is what he told me. His father is Egyptian, his mother is Israeli, and he knows Arabic as well as Hebrew, so he has the means to hear both sides.)

I have to agree with his approach.

There is little time for advancement when morbidly absorbed in the wrongs of past experiences. Particularly in America where the right to freely choose one's beliefs is guaranteed by a Constitution and defended by the blood of an heroic military. If we made wrong choices in the past, we made them. It hardly makes sense to blame a dead man for our poor choices, if indeed they were poor.

In no way was the entire experience bad. Quite to the contrary. Yet even if the experience for some were almost altogether terrible, is the present served by interminable crying over the past? One mourns, even with profound sorrow for months on end if necessary, and then finds a way to move forward again. A dead man's past errors should not be allowed to haunt the present -- nor should his errors be seen as the only part of his legacy. A completely honest appraisal should measure both debits and credits.

On the former Pasadena campus, Maranatha High School is delighted with their part of the physical plant, Harvest Rock church and Victor Venor's California Philharmonic revel in the matchless acoustics and appointments of Ambassador Auditorium.

Exposure to the Bible, interpretive errors notwithstanding, should still be a boon for anyone who dares to exercise his or her God-given ability to think creatively, without fear, using the knowledge gained in that exposure. (By now we should all know that any tyranny over the human spirit is a profound and indefensible evil.)

Much along these lines can be learned from the spirit of contemporary Israel. The holocaust is gone forever. "Never again" is the new motto. NEVER again!

The ball is in Israel's court now; they have seized it and they are determined to run with it. They're home, finally, and home is where they'll build their lives anew -- profitably using all the skills learned in the countries from whence they came, including Hitler's Germany.

It's an attitude worth embracing.

If I remember correctly "The David Defense" was on...

2007-10-30T20:08:00.000+13:00

If I remember correctly "The David Defense" was one of the first articles ever posted to the Painful Truth.

Funny thing is, they still use it!

2007-10-30T19:24:00.000+13:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

This is interesting, hearing again from apologists...

2007-10-30T18:19:00.000+13:00

This is interesting, hearing again from apologists for the Armstrong empire.
The "just get over it" and "get a life", and "too much time on your hands" arguments, along with others, are very familiar, and so typical of the arguments made from the adherents to the teachings of so many destructive cults toward those who have moved on in what they believe.

I think that such cheap shots are simply to try to silence criticism of [whichever] destructive cult, and an attempt to try and make it look like like there is something wrong with the critics.
I think, too, that for a cult apologist to strongly state that others are wrong(and "not worthy", lol!), is an attempt to bolster the cult's belief in him/her self.

I was doing a bit of research, and came across a sermon where Herb was being a major-league braggart, inserting himself into prophetic scripture, and claiming that he'd been invited to talk to someone who tells 1/4 of the world's population what to think. It plays on windows media player, and the addy is:
http://tinyurl.com/23tebe

Warning! It's 27:07 long, and who wants to listen to all that, so slide the button over to start at about 4:00, and only listen to 3 or 4 mins to hear what I refer to above.

Is that the pounding of the podium by GOD'S END-TIME PROPHET that I hear, as well as lots of total BS?
LOL!

PS: In this sermon, he certainly does "set dates", by saying that the Tribulation will probably start in the 80's, and if not, DEFINITELY in the 90's.

PSS: If you have trouble making that link work, go to:
http://tinyurl.com/ytjnje
and scroll down and click on Side 2 of the sermon entitled, "Receivership & Prophecy"

Hi Camfinch"This is a community here, made up most...

2007-10-30T17:08:00.000+13:00

Hi Camfinch

"This is a community here, made up mostly of those who were for varying numbers of years--some more, some less--in a trap in which we believed that one church, under one man, had all the relevant salvatory truth on offer."

Most all Christian groups say that,
that they are one true church; be it Catholic, Protestant, Adventist, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, etc...

And it has been 21 years...

You need to make peace, stay away from Christian fundamentalists, and move on...

You really do need to move on...

"Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move o...

2007-10-30T15:53:00.001+13:00

"Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move on and get a life...

Unless for some reason your life has to do with hurting people who hold to legitimate traditions"

I would ask that you define "legitimate traditions". And I'll ask, what is "legitimate" about the religion that HWA built?

This is a community here, made up mostly of those who were for varying numbers of years--some more, some less--in a trap in which we believed that one church, under one man, had all the relevant salvatory truth on offer. Regardless of the man's sins, real or alleged, the experience was one in which we are glad to have rid ourselves. We DO have our own lives, thank you. And that's part of this blogsite: the celebration of our freedom. Part of that celebration is to remind ourselves of the great harm that was part of the old regime. We don't revel in the old man's sins; but we support each other in the shared experiences that we have in having been a part of Armstrongism. There is a huge difference between remaining trapped in our anger, and simply having a community of those who have found freedom. This has been explained on various threads on this site many times.

"Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move o...

2007-10-30T15:53:00.000+13:00

"Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move o...

2007-10-30T15:47:00.000+13:00

"Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move on and get a life...'

Sounds like Dart. Or any other Armstrongist who doesn't like to be reminded of HWA and Co's foul deeds yet knows them to be true...and so wants people, in the guise of "moving on," to shut up about it. That way they can get on with good old Armstrongism (to varying degrees).

"Unless for some reason your life has to do with hurting people who hold to legitimate traditions."

What do you mean, "legitimate traditions?"

Paul

Tom said,"HWA has been dead for over 21 years. Yet...

2007-10-30T14:50:00.000+13:00

Tom said,

"HWA has been dead for over 21 years. Yet you and others are fixated on his alleged sins."

Tom has a point, most of you folks need to move on and get a life...

Unless for some reason your life has to do with hurting people who hold to legitimate traditions.

Then shame on you.

PS“To be nobody but yourself—in a world that is do...

2007-10-30T10:45:00.000+13:00

PS

“To be nobody but yourself—in a world that is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else—means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.” —Edward “E. E.” Cummings

“People spend a lifetime searching for happiness; looking for peace. They chase idle dreams, addictions, religions, even other people, hoping to fill the emptiness that plagues them. The irony is the only place they ever needed to search was within.” —Ramona L. Anderson

“People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul.” —Carl Jung

Here is why the world doesn't need people stuck in...

2007-10-30T10:41:00.000+13:00

Here is why the world doesn't need people stuck in ruts of denial. Here is why most on this blog are on the right track. Here is why abusive churches and organizations get call out on it in time and even though as noted, they seldom apologize or repent in any real sense to those they hurt.

"“Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The trouble-makers. The round heads in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify, or vilify them. But the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And, while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.” —Jack Kerouac

I've been away from this site for a couple of days...

2007-10-30T08:24:00.000+13:00

I've been away from this site for a couple of days, but in perusing the comments made since my comment that the mean-spirited Armstrongist who was in Pasadena in the late 60's (and who worked on the Landscaping crew after his students days) has the initials H.R., I saw that someone inquired if H.R. is the same H.R. who maintains a bitter, often racist, website. Yes, that indeed is the selfsame person. His writings make Tom seem like a humble conversationalist who loves to engage in objective discussion!

Anonymous 4:40 AM: How would a true Christian beh...

2007-10-30T05:07:00.000+13:00

Anonymous 4:40 AM: How would a true Christian behave if he knew that one individual were on the blog attempting to re-deceive people back into a toxic and destructive false religion? Wouldn't the true Christian speak up?

You might also want to ponder this. Individuals who are coming out of such a destructive cult require years to shed themselves of the bitterness and hatred which are a natural byproduct of their experience. Often it requires therapy. Speaking out about the experience is also very therapeutic. I've even met some who have been freed from all the negative emotions, and have succeeded in building a new relationship with God. But, you've got to start somewhere. Recognizing and speaking out about deception, false prophets, and religious rape can be a good start.

There is a phenomenon amongst some rape victims. A small minority become promiscuous or predatory themselves. IOW, they embrace the general practice. Based on the postings of some of the still practicing Armstrong victims, I believe there is a religious parallel.

BB

"A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit". It...

2007-10-30T04:41:00.000+13:00

"A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit". It's not just Armstrongism, it's the whole tree of Christendom. It's corrupt and has been for 1900 hundred years.

Every once in a while, a more evil branch of it shows up, like Armstrongism, to point out this fact.

The very foundation of being able to "sin" and then be forgiven for it and absolve oneself from all responsibility of that "sin" is evil in itself.

The good person who lives his life taking care of business and his family and who has never even heard of Jesus Christ gets thrown into the lake of fire. While an evil person can believe a bunch of bullshit and get forgiven and make it into the kingdom.

All depending, of course, on which branch of Christendom is talking. It could be that the good, honest person gets to spend eternity in hell while the forgiven sinner gets to go to heaven.

It's bullshit and it's wrong.

Stingerski, Charlie, Paul, Becker,et al, SHUT UP!I...

2007-10-30T04:40:00.000+13:00

Stingerski, Charlie, Paul, Becker,et al, SHUT UP!

If you were true Christians you shut up. But I am WRONG, so you will not shut up.

True Christians are taught not to keep hatred and forgive.

Do not take Tom's views seriously, because somewhe...

2007-10-30T04:24:00.000+13:00

Do not take Tom's views seriously, because somewhere a village is missing their idiot.

Tom Said: "If what you say about HWA is true, how ...

2007-10-30T03:42:00.000+13:00

Tom Said: "If what you say about HWA is true, how do you know that God didn't treat HWA the same way he treated King David, the Apostle Peter and Paul?

Now I know that you will duck this question, and returned to your tirade of abuse until the cacophony becomes a din, and God has to silence it."

I'll tell you why Tom, because herbert the pervert never repented of his sins (Unlike David), that is why. He never tried to make amends with the people he screwed. If he couldn't buy someone off, he simply put them out of his church and / or put Ralph Helge into action.

Then of course he had his army of idiots, er, um, followers to defend him.

Tom, You are the person on this blog that ducks every question put to you. You are the one constantly making reference to some sort of calamity coming (very soon) that we will suffer and /or >gasp< silence us. The tone and content of your postings show the destructive result that comes from years of the armstrong brain-washing thought process, which is essentially the mental equivalent of going into a round room and trying to stand in a corner.

Do your children a favor and don't teach them armstrongism and don't take them to your church. They'll thank you when they grow up.

Tom said:The things you say about HWA, I have no k...

2007-10-30T02:29:00.000+13:00

Tom said:The things you say about HWA, I have no knowledge of them, and don't really care whether they are true or not. Others have made the same assertions on other forums, and my reaction then is as it is now. I don't care.<

You don't care if Herbie raped his daughter? Is this of god? Yes or no?

Your defense of Herbie is suspect. You give me the impression you are a evil malicious man. Do you share the same sins?