Comments on Ambassador Watch: On Notice

"Briefly, about ten or fifteen years ago, there wa...

2007-12-22T19:44:00.000+13:00

"Briefly, about ten or fifteen years ago, there was a trend of cutting off even the beginning of the suggestion of sideburns. It was above the ear, not even extending the normal half inch, or whatever."

Thanks, I get it now. By forbidding "shaving off of sideburns" Pack meant the recent hair style you mention, my mistake. So removing 95% of sideburns is not effeminate and forbidden, only removing 100% of them is. The logic is still a little baffling, since by that reasoning a woman could be considered to have long hair if she shaved 95% of her head and let 5% grow long, on analogy to Pack's policy on male sideburns. It seems these apostolic hairstyle proscriptions are a bit arbitrary and culturally biased. For example, Pack's article, like WCG literature of the HWA era, advocated long hair for women, but women of AC of the HWA era told me that ministers' wives were expected in that culture to wear their hair short, rather than long and flowing, as long and flowing was somehow considered undignified. I guess this is why God invented ministers, to resolve these important matters.
Seriously, the desire to control and suppress individual expression as you say seems to be at the root of this nonsense.

Anonymous said: "For some reason, the so-called ch...

2007-12-22T07:46:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said: "For some reason, the so-called churches of God have always been unnaturally preoccupied with hair. Anything other than the men's hairstyles that existed in the USA from about 1943 to 1958 have always been highly frowned upon. I think it's the individualism that they found to be so wicked and rebellious."

Unfortunately, there was no such preoccupation with foot hygiene or the length of toenails. Anyone who has participated in a WCG passover service can attest to that. Apparently, the bible saith nothing on the subject.

Briefly, about ten or fifteen years ago, there was...

2007-12-22T04:56:00.000+13:00

Briefly, about ten or fifteen years ago, there was a trend of cutting off even the beginning of the suggestion of sideburns. It was above the ear, not even extending the normal half inch, or whatever.

For some reason, the so-called churches of God have always been unnaturally preoccupied with hair. Anything other than the men's hairstyles that existed in the USA from about 1943 to 1958 have always been highly frowned upon. I think it's the individualism that they found to be so wicked and rebellious.

I remember sermons and sermonettes from the HWA er...

2007-12-21T22:15:00.000+13:00

I remember sermons and sermonettes from the HWA era condemning sideburns that went lower than halfway down the ear. (Forget those pictures of the founding fathers and famous 19th century authors.)
The burning question is: if Pack is such an HWA-fundamentalist, how is it that he has on his website the no-cutting-of-sideburns rule? Is Pack's own violation of this a disfellowshippable offense?

Bamboo:I just Googled "mullet" to see what one was...

2007-12-21T19:29:00.000+13:00

Bamboo:

I just Googled "mullet" to see what one was. Seems it was a hair style where the top was relatively short on top and sides, but the back was long.

Answer: No. I'm a natural greaser who needs to wash his hair every day. I never could wear long hair of any style. My non-conformity was always either exceptionally long sideburns, or a beard.

BB

Blogger Tom said... Kscribe said: >>>In fac...

2007-12-21T17:44:00.000+13:00

Blogger Tom said...

Kscribe said:

>>>In fact, I rather expect there to be lots of "True Believers" in all kinds of things- even some very nutty things.<<<

Absolutely! Just think of the nutty things you believe in!

I DID NOT WRITE THAT THOMASS...
Do you know what your doing? Writing in anger and haste! Shame on you Christian!

Tom said, "Syntax, grammar and proper subordinatio...

2007-12-21T17:41:00.000+13:00

Tom said, "Syntax, grammar and proper subordination dear boy, constitutes much of the Queen's English."

Sigh.

Please note that in number a predicate should match its subject, and in your sentence it don't. Enough already, for the love of rhubarb.

As for KISS, isn't that an acronym for "Kings in Satan's Service"?

Oingo Boingo was in a class by itself, producing a man of Danny Elfman's then budding genius. Today he is one of the brightest and busiest among score writers in the motion picture industry. Fresh, unpredictable, interesting, inventive -- no doubt demon possessed.

Reflecting on GTA's constant relegating of the world's great composers to the ranks of the demon possessed, one young man wryly commented that if that were true, then the WCG could well have used at least one good demon-possessed composer.

Byker Bob, did you wear a mullet?

2007-12-21T17:35:00.000+13:00

Byker Bob, did you wear a mullet?

"The '70s were awesome!"Oh Gawd, save me from feat...

2007-12-21T17:21:00.000+13:00

"The '70s were awesome!"

Oh Gawd, save me from feathered hair! I was a child during the 70's, and I despise it. Everyone on TV and in my cousin's yearbook looked unkempt and dirty.

Paul

I always went for the ass-kicking blue collar rock...

2007-12-21T15:08:00.000+13:00

I always went for the ass-kicking blue collar rock n roll myself. You'd go to a party where there were kegs of Bud, get faced, and listen to either a live band, or exceptional stereo system blaring stuff like Mountain's "Mississippi Queen", or Skynyrd's "Free Bird" Grand Funk was pretty cool, too. A little Zep, Humble Pie, or the Who or Stones to round things out, maybe a couple of bitchin' fights breaking out as the night wore on. Tough chicks in Levis and leather, too. The '70s were awesome!

I did notice that whenever we had AC grads gone bad around us, they were more into ELP, the Moody Blues, Queen, the Beatles White Album, Jethro Tull, etc. But, to me that was like Herbie's music set to rock. Too deep to really get into. Gimme three chords, pentatonic fuzzy burnt guitarleads, polyrhythmic drums, and rough vocals any day of the week!

Hey, has anybody else seen the "Jesus Rocks!" T-shirts. It shows Jesus in his robe standing there just jamming on his Stratocaster. I've been thinking of buying one to wear at the bowling alley.

Oh, Tom, and some of the other COGlodytes: Sorry to relapse into a little carnality there, but sometimes it still comes out.

BB

Bamboo...'82 sounds about the right time for us be...

2007-12-21T13:48:00.000+13:00

Bamboo...'82 sounds about the right time for us being there to get the same lectures from Gregg and co on music. Actually, no one ever questioned the rather lurid and militaristic lyrics to most of the COG hymns! I mean were were marching as to war, climbing thru the windows leaping, twas not a foe who did deriding and death shall them seize ALIVE they shall go down....ewwwww.

The last ten years I always laughed when we sang "all one body we, one in hope and doctrine, one in chariteeeee." Yeah right. WORSE Lyrics than KISS!

DennisDeihl said...It was tough sitting through mi...

2007-12-21T13:25:00.000+13:00

DennisDeihl said...

It was tough sitting through ministerial refreshers where Joe Sr. made us watch Twister Sister, Queen and so on sooz we'd know how evil it all was for our brains. I got caught tapping my toes and being amazed at how well Freddy Mercury could really sing.

Er..The Twister Sister's are those gals on cable TV who chase tornados for fun and giggles. Twisted Sister was the rock band where they dressed like women of your very worst nightmares.

I still think it was their lyrics "We're not gonna take it anymore..." that so threatened the Ambassador College admins. Nothing was ever said about KISS.

We got lectured in 1982 at AC Student Forum by Greg Albrecht about Twisted Sister. The funny thing was the kids who were so into Twisted Sister were the "preppiest" of the bunch. These kids were not the fringers.

I was more an Oingo Boingo fan myself. And they never said nothing about "Dead Man's Party" (which kind of sounds like a good name for the post HWA WCG!)

"Going to a party where no one is alive..."

I wonder if Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon would have...

2007-12-21T12:03:00.000+13:00

I wonder if Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon would have given a rats ass about what the OT would say in the far far future?

Saint Tom saith: "He can't come back to tell you o...

2007-12-21T11:05:00.000+13:00

Saint Tom saith: "He can't come back to tell you of sufferings he is experiencing, but you may soon pay him a visit to and discover for yourself."

There goes Tom again, judging and inferring what your sentence will be.

To Robert: You need to relax a little man! You appear to spend so much time trying to figure out the length you hair should be, color of underwear, what each law or custom was that you leave no time for good works.

To all that care: I don't know if I'll get a chance to post between now and Christmas so I wish each of you a Merry Christmas! (And a Happy Solstice to you Dennis!)

"He can't come back to tell you of sufferings he i...

2007-12-21T11:01:00.000+13:00

"He can't come back to tell you of sufferings he is experiencing, but you may soon pay him a visit to and discover for yourself."

Strange. I didn't see you as someone who believes in an everburning Hell type, being an Armstrongist.

Paul

Google "Ron Paul"

Leviticus 19:27: "You shall not shave around the s...

2007-12-21T09:34:00.000+13:00

Leviticus 19:27: "You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your bead."

Karaite Korner: "To "round the edge of your head" means to cut off the hair around the sides of the head. Many exegetes associate this with the pagan "bowl-cut". A bowl-cut was an ancient hair-cut with pagan significance that was created by placing a round bowl on the head and cutting all the exposed hair.

That shaving the beard was an act of mourning in ancient times is clear from many biblical passages. For example, in the Book of Jeremiah we read about a group of pilgrims mourning the destruction of the Temple: "There came certain men from Shechem, from Shiloh, and from Samaria, eighty men, having their beards shaven and their clothes rent, and having cut themselves, with meal-offerings and frankincense in their hand to bring them to the house of YHWH." (Jeremiah 41:5). We see that these pilgrims were mourning and therefore tore their clothes, cut their skin, and shaved their beards. Clearly then shaving the beard was also an act of mourning along with tearing the clothes and cutting the skin.

The fact that shaving was an act of mourning may shed light on a rather obscure passage that till now has defied explanation. In 2Sam 9:1-4 we read that David sent emissaries to Hanun king of Amon to comfort him over the death of his father. For some reason Hanun became convinced that David's emissaries had not come to comfort him but to spy out the land. In a strange act of retribution he decided to cut off half their beards and send them humiliated back to Israel.

In summation, Lev 19:27-28, Lev 21:4-5, Dt 14:1-2 prohibit 4 different acts of mourning. These are:

1) Making a bald spot on the head as an act of mourning
2) Shaving the beard as an act of mourning
3) Cutting the skin as an act of mourning
4) Writing on the skin as an act of mourning

It may have more to do not doing these things as acts of mourning than as a literal interpretation of proper conduct.

See http://www.karaite-korner.org/shaving.shtml

Kscribe said:>>>In fact, I rather expect there to ...

2007-12-21T09:14:00.000+13:00

Kscribe said:

>>>In fact, I rather expect there to be lots of "True Believers" in all kinds of things- even some very nutty things.<<<

Absolutely! Just think of the nutty things you believe in!

Tom said... DennisDiehl said...>>>Nice Queen's eng...

2007-12-21T09:10:00.000+13:00

Tom said...
DennisDiehl said...

>>>Nice Queen's english there Tom. I think karma caught up to you. Or is that how the Queen spells?

"Infirmities."<<<

Syntax, grammar and proper subordination dear boy, constitutes much of the Queen's English.

I hope you note my spelling of the word "English" with a capital E.

Anyway, Microsoft spellchecker might make many appear to spell better than they actually can, but wizards that peep and mumble do not teach syntax and grammar.

***********************************

>>Or did you mean Freddy Mercury?<<

He can't come back to tell you of sufferings he is experiencing, but you may soon pay him a visit to and discover for yourself.

QuestionWhy do the Hasidic men shave and keep side...

2007-12-21T09:09:00.000+13:00

Question
Why do the Hasidic men shave and keep sideburns? I noticed that some Hasidim do not shave their beards either. What is the difference?

Dear Tina,
the reason why chassidic men keep sideburns is because the Torah says (Leviticus 19:27) "You shall not round off the edge of your scalp."

The Torah forbids this practice because in ancient times it was a pagan custom to shave the sideburns.

The reason why chassidic men do not shave their beard either is:
A. According to the Zohar, the beard is considered to be a channel of holiness and blessing and is therefore not to be shaven or trimmed by any method.

B. Negative Mitzvah #44 states that one should not shave. However, there is wiggle room in halacha (Jewish law).
Many observant Jewish men do shave. According to their custom, "Do not shave..." is interpreted to mean use of a razor, knife or other single-blade device (as opposed to a trimmer or scissors, or electric shaver) or shaving closely/smoothly.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Orthodox-Judaism-952/sideburns.htm

For trivia interest, this gem from Pack's RCG webs...

2007-12-21T08:39:00.000+13:00

For trivia interest, this gem from Pack's RCG website explaining that men should not cut their sideburns.

". . . a male should not shave off his sideburns. Doing this also makes him appear feminine."

http://www.thercg.org/articles/djhlh.html

This in addition to the expected condemnation of ponytails, dreadlocks, and "a male’s hair should not cover his ears or reach to the shirt collar", leading to the ringing conclusion: "How we look and appear before the great Creator God is important! . . . men in God’s Church should look like men . . ."

Only problem is Pack himself seems to have cut his sideburns, thus making the apostle himself look effeminate and ungodly by his article's divine criteria. Can anyone shed light on this important question?

"Difficult Scriptures: Coming to Grips With the La...

2007-12-21T08:17:00.000+13:00

"Difficult Scriptures: Coming to Grips With the Law of Moses"

They are only difficult if you approach them with the view that Christians are to observe The Law. Then they have to be "explained."

It's hilarious. This book says that a man was dead three days and then he came back to life- and COG'ers believe it. Yet when this book says that Christians are not under the Law, they don't believe it and spend years trying to explain how it doesn't mean what it says.

Paul

Paul

cracker said... >>>Come on fellas, lets leave all ...

2007-12-21T07:03:00.000+13:00

cracker said...

>>>Come on fellas, lets leave all the mud slinging to Tom.<<<

Or do mean, come fellows,
whose side are you on?

OTOH, somebody might just give you a good pulling for xmas.

>>>Step up to GodTube and get you a BIG BIBLE!What...

2007-12-21T06:57:00.000+13:00

>>>Step up to GodTube and get you a BIG BIBLE!

What they don't tell you is that they pre-screen all videos before they are uploaded. After laboriously reading through their terms and conditions it appears good old Herb won't be embracing our computer monitors on godtube.

Oh, I forgot we probabally will need Gerald's permission first as he owns the copyright to much of old Herb's faithful works.

The problem with this technological age is that it causes all of us even the best of us, to infringement copyright laws now and again. And I don't just mean the odd dabble in file sharing programmes looking for that long lost high school song reminding us better days!

Even to download a copy of Mystery of the Ages meant that we were technically breaking the physical letter of the law but we kept it in the spirit!

>>>I was surprised to see mild manner Robert, a Herbie-ite we were almost growing fond of for his politeness..

I am generally polite and mild mannered towards people, I have to admit. As Bob Thiel once wrote to me in email: "Exactly who are YOU?" when pointing out his errors!

God forbid, a nobody like me, should ever tell a somebody when he is wrong! As Garner Ted's philosphophy was, "live and let live" so my belief goes. If people want to keep christmas who am I to stop them, go ahead and enjoy the festivities.

I am intelligent to know not every custom is pagan in Christmas but some of it evolved over tradition through events. Even Garner Ted in a sermon on Xmas goes to great lengths to suggest 25 Dec is possibly the date of Christ's conception (I think he uses Bullinger's to refer to this.

But then I am part of the community of Sabbatarians that does not use "priests" to determine doctrine. We each determine for ourselves what is true and what is not. Tkach described as a priesthood of believers!

I am sorry if people have been offended but it was not my intention to do this. Perhaps in my youthful haste I write before thinking.

My latest book arrived through the post: Difficult Scriptures: Coming to Grips With the Law of Moses in the Worldwide Church of God by David Albert. Copies available second hand through Amazon.

If ever you needed a book to convince you out of legalism and the Law of Moses, this is it! It is necessary for me to understand all of the arguments so it will prove to be a useful reference book!

Probabally better than the last one, The Talmud of Jmmanual. The idea of Jesus going into a flying saucer taking him to Galilee was stretching things a bit. You couldn't help but think Jesus was some type of alien from outer space with the angels going around visiting us in flying saucers! Though the idea that God has created three separate worlds (is a fascinating idea) with the humans on each slightly more advanced than the other.

Oh have I have believed some crazy thngs in life ...

It was tough sitting through ministerial refresher...

2007-12-21T04:35:00.000+13:00

It was tough sitting through ministerial refreshers where Joe Sr. made us watch Twister Sister, Queen and so on sooz we'd know how evil it all was for our brains. I got caught tapping my toes and being amazed at how well Freddy Mercury could really sing.

One feast Doug Winnail played "Born to be Wild" "fire all of your guns at once..." as a FOT sermon intro. Again, I had to be restrained...I love that song, of course he had some other use for it than I was feeling...

Yea we're off topic, but there was only so much to say on Colbert.

I tried to explain the Astro-theological nature of...

2007-12-21T04:30:00.000+13:00

I tried to explain the Astro-theological nature of the Son/Sun of God Xmas story to the WCG boys at the Surprising God Blog, but they rejected me as unworthy of comment.

I told em even the Archbishop of Canterbury said the Nativity was a legend and the Pople has switched the scene of Jesus birth to Nazareth in Joseph home and out of Bethlehem..go figure.

Oh well...Happy Advent of something very old..... Older than ya think! :)