Comments on Ambassador Watch: Place of Safety

The place of safety, what a riot! I remember hear...

2008-02-01T16:40:00.000+13:00

The place of safety, what a riot! I remember hearing that used like a whip, if you leave then you won't be in the place of safety. Then after the last FOT I went to, I decided that I'd rather be in the tribulation with all my real family than with the bickering bunch of people who had a monopoly on the holy spirit in their minds. Glad I did not be baptized afterall.

Thanks, Gavin. I find (or is that "found"?) there ...

2008-01-29T15:31:00.000+13:00

Thanks, Gavin.

I find (or is that "found"?) there are all kinds of beliefs adhered to by the folks who were once in the church that HWA built.

It's quite the smörgåsbord, with perhaps less pork and shellfish than a typical smörgåsbord.

I've attended some WCG anniversary celebrations, at which many attended who have gone in different directions. It's those and funerals which tend to bring the folks together, imo.
Maybe funerals the most.

And, friends have sometimes filled me in on what's up with the folks who didn't attend those anniversaries and funerals for "religious reasons"- they have mostly been members of Pack's or Flurry's church.

All over the map, but those I've met in the ensuing years...it's kind of like meeting old family members again.

And, oh, the stories, in all this family! It's quite a thing.

Tom's just one type among many.

I remember Tom from his correspondence back on the...

2008-01-27T23:25:00.000+13:00

I remember Tom from his correspondence back on the website that preceded this blog. He isn't 22 and seems to be quite genuine. He has a website here

Anon. said :Trust me when I say, Tom is a fake. He...

2008-01-27T22:21:00.000+13:00

Anon. said :

Trust me when I say, Tom is a fake. He's 22, bored, and he's been playing you all like a fiddle.

I've suspected this all along, that Tom is just a chain yanking yahoo. Nobody but a chain yanker could write such things about Herbert the Pervert.

But what is your basis for saying what you did, if I may ask? Do you know him personally? Please explain, if only to satisfy my 6th sense that I was right.

We know that most of the HWA archives are preserve...

2008-01-27T19:25:00.000+13:00

We know that most of the HWA archives are preserved on various websites, but I'm unaware of any sites preserving Garner Ted's articles and writings. Since some of GTA's later booklets are occasionally quoted here and on other forums, does anyone know of a site where one can locate these archives?

BB

If Garner Ted Armstrong is to be believed, then GT...

2008-01-27T06:48:00.001+13:00

If Garner Ted Armstrong is to be believed, then GTA himself answers Gavin's original question:

In the booklet, "Now It can Be Told, The PLAIN TRUTH About the "PLACE OF SAFETY" and the PHILADELPHIAN CHURCH",Copyright 1997, The Church of God, International, Tyler, Texas (Page 15):

These events tended to support my mother's assumption that the "Rose Red City of the Rock" she saw depicted in that 1935 issue of National Geographic was the prophesied place of safety.......My father began to believe Petra was indeed the place. My parents visited the site in the mid 1950s with my brother, Richard David (who died following a fatal automobile crash in 1958). At that time, it was an arduous trip, and one had to ride on horseback or on a camel through the Siq.

By the time I was a junior in Ambassador College, in 1955, the concept that the church would go to Petra was deeply ingrained. We all believed it. We hoped for it - wrote and preached about it.

If Garner Ted Armstrong is to be believed, then GT...

2008-01-27T06:48:00.000+13:00

"St. Tom, I still say you are yanking our chains h...

2008-01-27T06:42:00.000+13:00

"St. Tom, I still say you are yanking our chains here, and having one helluva good laugh in the process, just like your idol Armstrong did. Or else you are one, very sick puppy. Maybe you should joins ranks with Ron Weinland and then wait for the men in the white coats to come and pick you up."

Trust me when I say, Tom is a fake. He's 22, bored, and he's been playing you all like a fiddle.

GTA published a number of booklets copyright Churc...

2008-01-27T06:27:00.000+13:00

GTA published a number of booklets copyright Church of God, International in the 1980s to mid 1990s that dealt with matters relating to his father - HWA.

In one booklet, "History of the Church of God, International", he related the story of his confrontation with his father in Arizonia.

As he relates it, GTA threatened to go public with the family secret and made the statement to HWA in the late 1970s, "I could destroy you".

From that point forward, HWA was obsessed with GTA going public, and cut off all commincations with his son.

(Anonymous said... In a booklet written by Garner ...

2008-01-27T04:45:00.000+13:00

(Anonymous said...
In a booklet written by Garner Ted Armstrong when he was with his Church of God, International, he confirmed HWA incest.)

Really now Annonymous! How simple and the rest of us have never even heard about it, in spite of the internet, "The Journal" and general scuttlebut on Forums.

Im not saying that HWA is not guilty. I challenge you to provide "said document" and to post here.

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

Tom preaches:I have nothing to hide, for my family...

2008-01-27T04:29:00.000+13:00

Tom preaches:

I have nothing to hide, for my family and I have been taught by Mr. Armstrong, from the word of God, how to live a life of honesty, integrity and decency.

Well, Tom, you must be the only person in the entire world who learned this from Armstrong. Because few, if any, of the "ministers" he taught (including his own son) learned anything of the sort.

Armstrong taught them all right. But it was not about honesty, integrity and decency. Because the old narcissist had none of those qualities. And you cannot teach about what you do not know.

So, it's for sure that any honesty, integrity and decency you "may" have picked up along the way did NOT come from any Herbert -w? Armstrong. And as is, you seem to be sorely lacking in those characteristics here. Because your posts also contain little of those qualities. No, what you learned from Armstrong is exactly how you appear to be here: a person in denial, full of duplicity and self-righteousness and one that has gone off the religious deep end. Just as your idol did.

Mr. Bruggeman said...>>>Lately, you've been puttin...

2008-01-27T03:44:00.000+13:00

Mr. Bruggeman said...

>>>Lately, you've been putting down people for not using their names, yet didn't you, in a bunch of posts, refer to yourself as simply "Tom", or "Vista Admin"?<<<

I have not been "putting down" anyone. I believe it is grossly discourteous to other posters and lurkers alike, for some contributors to come here and post comments, without adding their names to them. It is also the height of cowardice to come on a public Blog and slander Mr. Armstrong, who is not alive to defend himself, without having the courage to say who you are.

In retrospect, I would agree that posting under "Tom" is not very specific, as there are millions of Toms in the world. However, when for technical reasons I posted under VistaAdmin, I wrote my full name at the bottom of every post I submitted.

I have nothing to hide, for my family and I have been taught by Mr. Armstrong, from the word of God, how to live a life of honesty, integrity and decency.

In a booklet written by Garner Ted Armstrong when ...

2008-01-27T03:28:00.000+13:00

In a booklet written by Garner Ted Armstrong when he was with his Church of God, International, he confirmed HWA incest.

Will it occur in 2012? No, it won't, and it won't ...

2008-01-27T03:19:00.000+13:00

Will it occur in 2012? No, it won't, and it won't occur in your lifetime and it will never occur.
It either happened when Jesus and the apostles said it would (in the first century) or it didn't and if it didn't happen then, then it won't ever happen

I recommend the article in New Horizons Sept/Oct 2007: 'The Second Advent: were the apostles mistaken?' View at www.cgom.org

You don't have the faintest idea how I think.With ...

2008-01-26T20:26:00.000+13:00

You don't have the faintest idea how I think.

With a brain deficient in the number of connections across the corpus callosum, lack of empathy, lack of conscience, distorted perceptions and a childish penchant for petty games pretty much sums up how Terrible Tyrant Tom thinks -- so we all here do know how he thinks: With the mind of a blaspheming idolater thinking nothing can ever touch him in his arrogant narcissism.

Yes, we know exactly how he thinks: With a deficient testosterone poisoned deprived depraved adolescent brain, making obvious self-contradictory statements which are easily discerned as outright deliberate lies.

Terrible Tyrant Tom is a mere Biblical illiterate Armstrongist cartoon character filled with the works of the flesh -- the very picture of a potential Jim Jones or David Koresh waiting for his own version of a place of safety concentration camp where he can satisfy his blood lust upon hapless victims.

Thankfully, there isn't a God who will let Tom have his way.

Yeah, Tom Mahon, it was so much a lie about HWA co...

2008-01-26T18:59:00.000+13:00

Yeah, Tom Mahon, it was so much a lie about HWA committing incest that he sued several websites and individuals for millions of dollars.

Dorothy came forward and denied everything and sued for redress of grievance. She gave up her mansion supplied by the church's tithes just so as to deny such dirty allegations against her father.

Why doesn't she deny these allegations today? Why is she not suing someone for saying such things?

Tom, you are an idiot and you can't even count as someone who even needs to be answered in all your blind faith in an Idol.

The WCG of HWA is gone - along with all the false prophecies and the other dirty "allegations". It simply doesn't matter any more.

You are a victim of the dim, dark past of the defunct Worldwide Church of God, - get over it. The great tribulation did not occur in 1972 and Jesus did not return in 1975 - get over it already!

Will it occur in 2012? No, it won't, and it won't occur in your lifetime and it will never occur.

It either happened when Jesus and the apostles said it would (in the first century) or it didn't and if it didn't happen then, then it won't ever happen.

Tom wrote:>>>At least they have names! But then, a...

2008-01-26T18:08:00.000+13:00

Tom wrote:

>>>At least they have names! But then, anyone quoting from a scrapbook of religious platitudes is likely to be too embarrassed to reveal his or her identity.
Don't you just love being nameless!<<<

C'mon, Tom!
Lately, you've been putting down people for not using their names, yet didn't you, in a bunch of posts, refer to yourself as simply "Tom", or "Vista Admin"?

Who are you to declare others as unworthy if they choose to not use their whole or real names?

You seem to really be reaching in your looking for other's faults.

That's a sign of someone who needs help, himself.

Do you think it's cool to act the elitist here? You must know that such an approach here will bring a negative reaction toward you.

So, quit whining and pretending it's all the fault of those less than you in spiritual stature. How many times have you claimed people here are eating their own vomit, or various other put-downs you write about others?

I still don't get the so-called "logic" in the idea of yours that pretends to have you called by God...

How did that go? "If God used herbie to call me, then herbie must be of God."

Am I close?

Maybe herbie and his vomit would have been better to ignore.

Tired Skeptic said...>>>It isn't clear whether you...

2008-01-26T16:29:00.000+13:00

Tired Skeptic said...

>>>It isn't clear whether you intended the premise, but your posting suggests another topic of amused concern: In demonstrating that Roderick, David, Ronald, Joe, Mark, Clyde, Frederick, Robert, William [well we aren't really sure about the last three names]<<<

At least they have names! But then, anyone quoting from a scrapbook of religious platitudes is likely to be too embarrassed to reveal his or her identity.

Don't you just love being nameless!

Anonymous said...>>>You're all buying into Tom's d...

2008-01-26T16:19:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...

>>>You're all buying into Tom's deep need to be the star of the AW blog.<<<

Truth, which is almighty, will always triumph over over folly and madness!

>>>We all know how he thinks.<<<

You don't have the faintest idea how I think.

>>>Now ignore him to death and get on with something intelligent, meaningful and helpful.<<<

"Intelligent?" Now that would be a break through! Perhaps you may begin by adding your name to your comments, however inane they might be.

Gavin,It isn't clear whether you intended the prem...

2008-01-26T14:47:00.000+13:00

Gavin,

It isn't clear whether you intended the premise, but your posting suggests another topic of amused concern: In demonstrating that Roderick, David, Ronald, Joe, Mark, Clyde, Frederick, Robert, William [well we aren't really sure about the last three names] would certainly pick the wrong answer, It does appear that you are tacitly saying that the cultmeisters of the foundering flock are incapable of learning. Past history seems that you have them dead to rights, if that were your intent.

In fact, one would have sort of thought that with 1972 coming and going without leaving to a place of safety and Jesus not returning shortly after the Great Tribulation not running its 3 1/2 years that some of the above aforementioned nim nuls would have ascertained that Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet, particularly when he signed his coworker and member letters with "in Jesus' Name" after giving the latest incarnation of failed prophetic dates way back then before they failed -- well, mostly, since some of the prophecies actually died before the ink was dry on his signature, like the one going over radio to Jerusalem. It's really bad when you can't even predict the past accurately.

Well, you know, they never learned. And here it is over 20 years after Herbert Armstrong died and many of his prophecies had gone poofy before he even bit the dust to be placed in his own place of safety six feet under.

One would think that the top ministers would begin to say, "Gee [euphemism intended], that didn't go the way thought it would: Shoot, what do we do now!?!".

Incapable of learning. Or more accurately, ever learning, but never coming to the truth. Having a zeal but misdirected. Utterly wrong.

And now we come down to today to the slowest learner of all: Terrible Tyrant Tom -- the Old Testament Christian under the Law of Death, less Ty and more Rant than ever.

Ayn...you have a point there. Tom can make us all...

2008-01-26T13:53:00.000+13:00

Ayn...you have a point there. Tom can make us all thank God we are not like other men....:)

I remember hearing sermons in the 70's about going...

2008-01-26T13:04:00.000+13:00

I remember hearing sermons in the 70's about going to Petra. Harsh conditons for us, you know the story. I was always mindful of the fact that if my inlaws or my relatives got wind of this that they would contact the authorities, our daughter was about 5 or 6 years old at the time. Imagine a church going to take their 5 year old granddaughter to a Jordanian wasteland to wait for the 2nd coming. Makes you shudder that it could have happened.

I disagree, anonymous. Many people from the ACOG ...

2008-01-26T12:20:00.000+13:00

I disagree, anonymous. Many people from the ACOG splinters read here. With Tom constantly bringing up elements from their pseudo belief system, some of the best exCOGnito minds get to debunk and diffuse the nonsense. Tom helps us to do incredible good here!

You're all buying into Tom's deep need to be the s...

2008-01-26T11:19:00.000+13:00

You're all buying into Tom's deep need to be the star of the AW blog. Ever since he popped up a month ago, we waste our time and feed his beast ad naseum.

We all know how he thinks. Now ignore him to death and get on with something intelligent, meaningful and helpful.

Part of the HWAcaca was that women got female type...

2008-01-26T07:36:00.000+13:00

Part of the HWAcaca was that women got female types of cancer from having sex with uncircumcised males. I know of some converts who, because of this, out of love for their wives, actually got circumcised as adults! (ouch!)

But, it seems that everyone uses things of which they don't approve as cause for such cancers. Interracial sex has been cited, the pill, masturbation, women wearing men's clothes (pants) and even the use of tampons have been cited.

Bottom line is that if the medical profession had conclusive evidence one way or the other, we'd have the same types of warnings about the causative practice as we now have regarding cigarettes and alcohol.

Some people get downright stupid and superstitious with their religion. One minister in WCG didn't like gum chewing. He toured a chewing gum plant, and noticed that the organic chemical urea was used as a softener for gum. So, he created a mental picture in his congregations' minds of urine being used in gum. And, of course, the brainwashed used this as ammo on their kids, making chewing gum just slightly more disgusting than pork chops.

Religion ain't bad. You just have to separate out the extra-biblical stuff, speculation, and ignorant superstition. But, then again, those are the things that Church of God "ministers" typically use to control the sheeple.