Comments on Ambassador Watch: Willie on Tap

Typical of Armstrongites, Will has disabled rating...

2009-09-28T03:01:18.346+13:00

Typical of Armstrongites, Will has disabled ratings and comments for his video. We're to listen, not speak.

Armstrongism is always a monologue, never a dialogue.

"....I was able to clean the slate, visiting ...

2009-09-14T14:47:14.321+12:00

"....I was able to clean the slate, visiting alternatives to the false doctrines from various new perspectives, getting rid of all of the hate, and ultimately emerging to a state of renewal...."

That's what nontheism is continuing to do for me, Bob. (Albeit with a healthy dose of gnosticism thrown in for good measure.)

Bob, your long-winded statement is merely just ano...

2009-09-13T11:32:24.919+12:00

Bob, your long-winded statement is merely just another way of side-stepping away from the serious questions many folks have about supernatural religion in general, and the Christian faith in particular.

For instance, and I keep pointing this out, you never can clearly establish the existence of your God, nor your claim that the Bible in His word. You just have to assume these things. And then when “called on the carpet” for just assuming your audience believes as you do, you typically respond by attacking the motives of those who question you. Yes, this allows you to slink away and somehow save face, but…

…YOU STILL NEVER MANAGE TO EVER ANSWER THE QUESTIONS PUT TO YOU.

How can you possibly consider this a fair or wise way to deal with the many legitimate questions that come your way. HWA always used to teach the principle of understanding your audience’s perspective, and then coming at the issue from THEIR point of view. But you, well, you just evade the issue altogether until you discern someone who has large amounts of gullibility and who is thus open to the Christian message. In other words, those who just lob you intellectual softballs that you’re able to hit.

I'm very familiar with the subject of apologetics, and repeatedly I’ve seen when true believers such as yourself get caught with "your pants down," so to speak, and simply have no real intelligible answers to the simple questions your metaphysical assertions trigger off in people’s minds, then virtually ALWAYS, with rare exceptions, you then go into attack mode and start questioning the underlying motives of the seekers. This is nothing more than a blatant and cowardly ad hominem approach. This plainly is your way of avoiding actually having to give an answer to the hope that is within you, because you CAN’T. Modern Christian apologetics has a long and clearly demonstrable track record of this. Just read about the history of it.

You claim you can perhaps be of some assistance if God is calling someone – in other words, if someone of extremely limited reasoning power, and who has never seriously investigated into the many truth claims of Christianity, has absolutely no idea of the arguments against the zany claims of the Christian religion, and who is predisposed to belief in the supernatural already, then yes, perhaps the great wisdom that has been given you, even if it is nowhere to found in your comments on this blogsite, can “help” such folks.

Have you ever considered somehow that in your worldview, your God may one day ask you, “Why didn’t you ever answer the simple questions those skeptics on the Ambassador Watch blogsite kept asking you?

Bob, what WILL be your answer?

Leo, I Pet. 3:15, as I see it, refers to the ques...

2009-09-13T07:41:28.628+12:00

Leo,

I Pet. 3:15, as I see it, refers to the questions coming from people who are open minded to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and may be being drawn to becoming His disciples.

It does not refer to the games of "twenty questions" posed by those seeking to destroy the faith of others, and designed to trip Christians up. If an atheist or non-believer approaches me from the standpoint of actually wanting to believe, and if he/she has some questions which need to be answered, and if those answers or any help I can provide will lead to that individual asking God to walk with them in their lives, then I'm willing to spend hours or days with them!

Do you know any atheists of that particular mindset who post on this blog? Perhaps I missed them, but most of the atheist posts I have seen take on a tone of ridicule of belief, or appear to be an effort to cause believers to lose faith. There is also the "safety in numbers" aspect to this. It's reassuring to be able to catch "high five" from what often appears to be the majority, as opposed to feeling all alone in one's non-belief.

There is a wonderful book which I read last year called "Reimagining Evangelism". The book advises the reader to discern carefully where the Holy Spirit is already working in individuals prior to sharing the gospel message with them. Only God can draw people to Himself, and we only frustrate ourselves if we believe we can do any more than provide a bit of subtle or humble assistance. That assistance can involve discussion, or sharing, as we do here, but it's only going to accomplish God's purpose if God is opening some doors.

We've got a unique situation on all of our ACOG related forums and blogs, in that all of us at one time did believe in God. I don't know that scripture provides any specific insights as to how to deal with our unique situation. There may be some insights contained within the epistles of Paul, or the Macabees, but in a sense we're sailing on uncharted waters. As I see it, our best course is to be gentle but firm, and to try not to do any more damage to one another than the cult has already done.

There are probably many ways to recover from a false religious system, and all of us are in different stages of recovery. Specifically from my own experience and viewpoint, my non-believer stage was a purge stage. During it, I was able to clean the slate, visiting alternatives to the false doctrines from various new perspectives, getting rid of all of the hate, and ultimately emerging to a state of renewal in which I am discovering the real God and the healing powers of Jesus Christ. Life is not easy at all just now. In addition to having to reconsider every aspect of my life, and to compare it to God's word, I also constantly need to deal with flak from two elements from my past belief systems (atheists and ACOGgers). But, the tohu and bohu conditions are gradually being brought to a state of order, and for the first time in my life, I have a deep inner feeling that I'm on the right track. I don't believe that it is any accident that we have these forums and blogs. I've already seen God work very powerfully through them, helping us all to deal with and process the many debillitating effects of a false religious system.

BB

I highly recommend the "Reason for God" ...

2009-09-12T12:39:17.729+12:00

I highly recommend the "Reason for God" book...it delves into some of the issues discussed here...in an insightful, non confrontational way....

"Atheism is heroin" Maybe it was for yo...

2009-09-11T14:26:44.077+12:00

"Atheism is heroin"

Maybe it was for you, Bob, but that certainly is NOT true for all, or even any, other atheists. Please remember that.

"We know that scores of people down through h...

2009-09-11T14:23:29.367+12:00

"We know that scores of people down through history have worshipped the sun as their god, though to a Christian (or a Jew, or a Muslim), however, such an act is unimaginably repulsive, being blatant idolatry."

Uh, Leonardo? Christians ARE sun-worshippers. They just don't want to admit it, preferring instead a dying-rising-godman created in their own image, as all gods ultimately are.

Byker Bob, you compare heroin addiction to non bel...

2009-09-11T14:15:52.548+12:00

Byker Bob, you compare heroin addiction to non belief in nonsense? How so? As my Dad would have said, "are you crazy?"

You speak of wearing a helmet on a motorcycle as commie? Have you seen what happens when a human head hits the asphalt? I have.

As my Dad would have said, "are you crazy?" But, as I say, please put a helmet on your head when you ride. You still may end up killed on one of those things but at least you can save someone the trouble of picking up your brains with a stick and a spoon.

Byker Bob said... I'd like to....exhort...our...

2009-09-11T13:42:47.581+12:00

Byker Bob said...

I'd like to....exhort...our believer friends here not to be too hard on the atheists. Atheism actually does serve a very practical purpose.

Learned theologians, on studying the topic of damnation, have pointed out...damnation involves total and permanent separation from God and His love. Atheism provides us all with an opportunity to take a "test drive" of this right now, during our human lives.

Nice of you condemn atheists on the advice of "Learned Theologians". Are you sure you speak for God?

It's all part of the free will system upon which God set mankind in the various permutations of human journey.

Those who enjoy this test drive will have an opportunity to make the arrangement permanent.

SAYS WHO? LEARNED THEOLOGIANS????

A three decade test drive was enough for me! Godlessness seems like freedom at first glance, but turns into one's worst nightmare with time. God is just totally awesome for allowing His children to check it out, though!

BB

If your attitude is "Godly" then give me atheists as my friends! At least they won't be judging if I am worthy of God's love or not!

I usually like what you write BB, but this is twisted. Hell, its the celestial version of the Mafia intimidation. And since nobody will know until they die, its not like most people will challenge that point of view.

Well a few CAN, but its not like anyone will pay attention. Got all those God damning "Learned Theologians" condemning people to hell...if they can't explain the trinity with out concocting self-referential language and circular logic, what makes you think they know what's on God's mind?

Organized religion is the ultimate insurance scam. People will take a policy even if the don't believe, because of the F.U.D. factor.

Byker Bob also wrote: "I'll let most of y...

2009-09-11T07:45:00.110+12:00

Byker Bob also wrote:
"I'll let most of your questions stand as rhetorical."

Well, well - yet another new strategy to avoid having to deal with the difficult problems and quandaries and questions your metaphysical assertions prompt.

Just let me assure you, Bob, when I ask you or any other believer here a question, I mean it literally.

But I don't quite understand how your approach fits in with the general spirit of I Peter 3:15...

"...always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you..."

I thought your faith in the supernatural supposedly gives you extra insights and greater clarity into reality? At least that's what you implied, or actually claimed, in a previous comment above, isn't it?

How come such an advantage is NEVER apparent in your evasive responses, Bob?

Just kind of curious.

(WARNING: All questions contained in this comment are literal, not rhetorical.)

Byker Bob wrote: "...atheism has the same bas...

2009-09-11T07:23:07.355+12:00

Byker Bob wrote:
"...atheism has the same basic effect as heroin. Both end in death, and block out a great deal of reality."

Well, I have no experience with heroin (or any other illegal substance, for that matter). But I have a boatload of experience when it comes to faith.

And the little "sound-bite" Christian slogans you like to spout off in place of REAL thinking just continue to ring hollow, in spite of what I consider to be your well-intentioned attempts to express your views.

By implication what you're saying is that FAITH opens up the human mind to a greater, more superior understanding of reality, certainly considerably more so than an unbeliever who has no such faith to give him or her such an advantage. Right?

Bob, stop deluding yourself - you know as well as I do that if that were truly the case, then folks like you and Larry and Mr. Anonymous would be able to articulate your views with much greater clarity and articulateness than is actually the case, just judging by the typically shallow comments you all make so frequently here on this website in defense of your mystical belief system.

Interesting though, your view of faith, because that's not been my experience at all with faith. Nor the experience of many other ex-believers.

On the contrary, I’ve seen faith ruin people’s lives irreparably. The space considerations on this blog page do not permit me to list the tragedies that I’ve personally witnessed during my time in the WCG: marriages and families ruined, health destroyed, premature deaths, careers abandoned, all because of sincere folks acting out the tenants of their faith in everyday real life.

But please let me cite just one.

There was a fellow whose situation I was familiar with, as genuine and well-meaning as the day is long, who began having degenerative macular problems (or some such malady) with one of his eyes. Professional eye doctors recommended a surgical procedure that had a very good track record of repairing his particular kind of problem.

But no, fortified by the teachings of the WCG, he decided to resolutely “rely on God for healing.” Result: very soon thereafter he went blind in that eye.

Then several years later the very same problem arose again, this time threatening his other remaining good eye. Ophthalmologists again recommended the identical surgical procedure that had a very good track record of repairing this particular kind of problem, the same one he elected to reject before. Except that this time his FAITH didn’t play as big a role as before, and he decided to get the surgery. Result: it saved the vision in his remaining eye, and he can still see to this day.

You could fill a book with individual occurrences such as this that took place on a fairly regular basis in the WCG.

The fundamentalist response to such tragedies? Some version or another of “God works in mysterious ways, and knows what’s best for us!” Or even worse, “Well, that guy didn’t have REAL faith, like I have.”

Oh, really?

Bob, my own real-life experience with fundamentalist religion argues far more powerfully, and provides considerably more evidence AGAINST faith than your groundless assertions ever will.

And if folks like you, or Larry, or Mr. Anonymous are any indication of the full effects of faith on the human mind and it’s power of reason, then all I can say to those tempted to “buy into” your metaphysical claims is a loud and lusty “BEWARE!”

Corky, I don't wear a helmet. In fact, I act...

2009-09-11T05:38:19.151+12:00

Corky,

I don't wear a helmet. In fact, I actually moved out of California when those commies enacted a helmet law!

Leo,

I'll let most of your questions stand as rhetorical. All I can tell you is that after thirty years, I realized that atheism has the same basic effect as heroin. Both end in death, and block out a great deal of reality. In the case of atheism, the spiritual component of life in which about 80-90% of the general public happens to believe is totally blocked out. Both heroin and atheism are dead ends, although one's consciousness is blocked to this reality while either are being used.

BB

Larry's recent comment triggered off a train o...

2009-09-11T04:41:03.269+12:00

Larry's recent comment triggered off a train of thought in my mind.

So try it on for size.

The saddest thing about the supernatural believers who regularly blog here is that sun-worshippers can actually make a much better and more intelligible argument for the existence of their “god” than can believers in the invisible, unresponsive and completely undetectable God of the Bible.

We know that scores of people down through history have worshipped the sun as their god, though to a Christian (or a Jew, or a Muslim), however, such an act is unimaginably repulsive, being blatant idolatry.

But my point is this: at least there exists ample evidence that literally proves the undeniable reality of such a “god.”

We can directly observe the existence of the sun. And the more we learn about it, the more we come to see that it provides the fundamental energies necessary to sustain life on earth, and that without it, such life simply could not exist. The sun heats our world within tolerable ranges for us, gives us the light with which we can see, provides the energy needed to grow the food we eat, heats and evaporates the water which falls as rain to irrigate our crops and provides drinkable water uncontaminated by salts, acids, etc.

It is therefore altogether reasonable to have great gratitude for the many benefits provided by the sun.

And guess what? The sun is, quite literally, giving up it’s own existence in a way that allows us to live. This can be understood as a direct form of self-sacrifice, a much-treasured concept among fundamentalists. The sun is burning itself up in the process of giving us life.

In addition, the sun shows no partiality: it imparts it’s life-giving properties on the strong as well as the weak, the rich and the poor, on the elites as well as the common folk, the criminal as well as the saint. It respects no religion, ideology, tribe, nation, government or any other kind of human allegiance. Its warmth and life-giving properties are enjoyed by people living around the world.

Further, it requires no rituals, no sacrifices, no unthinking obedience and doesn’t scream from the sky demanding respect, or threaten with disease, destruction and death if humans fail to cough up such worship.

But the one big difference between the sun and the invisible God of the theists, is that the sun requires no faith whatsoever in order to believe in it’s existence. The sun does not remain hidden and aloof. It’s presence is plain for all to see, and is undeniable. Have you ever heard someone seriously make an argument that the sun does NOT exist? (I suppose we would scornfully refer to such folks as asolarists!)

We can attempt to hide from the sun, but it will still be there no matter how hard we try to avoid it’s existence. Only a fool could seriously deny that the sun exists, it’s existence being concretely empirical – thus objectively verifiable.

So, many have worshiped the sun as their god. But at least the existence of such a “god” is supported by legitimate evidence which can intelligibly demonstrate it’s actual existence. The same thing, in contrast, CANNOT be said of the invisible deity of the Bible, or the Quran, or the traditional God of western theism, or whatever else you may wish to call such a deity.

If the many recent verbal evasions typically made by the believers on this website prove anything, it demonstrates at least one major point: the existence of their God must be accepted on blind faith alone – and to hell with having to logically prove or demonstrate with intelligible evidence in any way His supposed existence. Whether they intend it or not, that is the one, undeniable apologetic battle cry of supernatural fundamentalists everywhere. No matter what specific religion their fundamentalism springs out of, their attempted arguments demonstrate one thing loud and clear: “We can offer no proof whatsoever for our God’s existence, it’s a matter of pure faith, and those who just stubbornly refuse to believe should be put to death.”

How absolutely pathetic.

Larry again writes: "This (your) approach mor...

2009-09-11T03:17:25.006+12:00

Larry again writes:
"This (your) approach more or less precludes the likelihood of ever understanding the more profound cosmological precepts of good and evil or the purpose of life and death."

You mean I’ll never be able to attain to YOUR obvious level of insight into the great mysteries of existence?

You mean to say I'm banned from ever understanding your advanced, high-level cosmological truths just because I make the simple request for some kind of intelligible EVIDENCE to back up or demonstrate the validity of the many zany assertions fundamentalists routinely and glibly make about reality?

You mean to say I'll never achieve the profound level of noticeable clarity, articulateness, wisdom and understanding folks like you and Mr. Anonymous have attained, and have so clearly demonstrated here the past several weeks in your comments?

I’m crushed!

Seriously Larry, if you or Mr. Anonymous see yourselves as any kind of spokesmen for your so-called cosmological truths, I suggest you bow out and pass the mantle onto others. Your utter ineptness at clearly articulating or demonstrating exactly WHY any reasonably intelligent human being should accede to the many bizarre and dogmatic truth claims of fundamentalist Christianity is plain for all to see.

Best probably that you stick with your “world-class university science” you so frequently claim to be a part of.

Larry wrote: "...I am a scientist who chooses...

2009-09-11T02:53:41.755+12:00

Larry wrote:
"...I am a scientist who chooses to accept both science and religion and am able to reconcile the two."

OK, Larry, whatever you say.

And, again, for the umpteenth time, what specifically is your field of study again?

And from what "world-class university" did you earn your doctorate from?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

Well Leonardo, Since you have pulled me into a...

2009-09-10T18:27:25.456+12:00

Well Leonardo,
Since you have pulled me into a discussion which I was not participating in, I guess I should respond. I don't argue with you because it is pointless to argue the inarguable.

And for the record, I don't get upset with you. And, I am a scientist who chooses to accept both science and religion and am able to reconcile the two. I take God at his word, while you insist that His existence must be proven to your satisfaction before His word can be part of the conversation.

This (your) approach more or less precludes the likelihood of ever understanding the more profound cosmological precepts of good and evil or the purpose of life and death.

Byker Bob wrote: "I'd like to take this o...

2009-09-10T11:49:40.224+12:00

Byker Bob wrote:
"I'd like to take this opportunity to exhort all of our believer friends here not to be too hard on the atheists."

Whew, thanks a lot, Bob, for appealing for a much-needed reprive here.

I mean, after all, it's plain for ALL to see that in the past few weeks the believers such as Larry and Mr. Anonymous have presented such articulate arguments and evidences in favor of their mystical worldview, that have just devastated their opponents.

Quite obviously one would have to be an utter fool not to conceed that they have clearly defeated the skeptics who frequent this site, and put them to flight!

But Bob, you talk confidently about God allowing us to test drive atheism. Do you think it'll be any better than that stellar period of European history when absolute Christian theism ruled people's lives - The Dark Ages?

You also mentioned about folks being separated from the love of God - would you be referring to the kind that Mr. Anonymous has been showing in some of his recent ramblings above?

In that case, it's a "love" that I think most of us would be willing to live without.

And one more thing, Bob - you still are putting the cart before the horse, because you too, just like Larry and Mr. Anonymous, make bold and sweeping declarations about God's plan, why He is doing this, that, or the other thing, etc. - and yet you've still not demonstrated His objective existence in any way, shape or form.

It's astounding how believers just assume they can make such all-encompassing assertions with the greatest of ease, and then get so upset when asked to present some evidence to demonstrate why we should accept such declarations as being true.

Byker Bob said... our planet is a very refreshing ...

2009-09-10T10:57:30.299+12:00

Byker Bob said...
our planet is a very refreshing isle of order and stability smack dab in the middle of the sea of entropy..

Reality check.

I don't know what planet YOU live on but I live on this planet called Earth.

This planet has volcanoes, super volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes and tornadoes that kill and destroy.

It has plants that kill and teeth, claws and fangs of animals that kill, not to mention the horrors of the insect world.

It has ice ages, meteorites and the occasional asteroid that destroys nearly all life off the face of the planet.

Don't forget about the vast areas of drought, famine and badlands where no one can live.

I think maybe you are wearing the wrong size helmet when you ride man, it's has damaged your brain's sense of reality.

Anonymous 1:28 wrote: "I guess in rebutting y...

2009-09-10T09:48:44.479+12:00

Anonymous 1:28 wrote:
"I guess in rebutting you, I hit a nerve..."

But you didn't rebut me at all, Anon - at least not in any serious kind of way. All you did was make several unfounded assertions with no evidence or logic to back them up as valid.

But go ahead, brag to all your fundamentalist friends how you've refuted another skeptic - it's a hollow "victory" for sure, but it's about as best as you'll ever get unless and until you raise your level of reasoning.

You also wrote:
"but just wanted you to know that I didn't and won't ever slink away from the truth!!"

I agree...as long as it's your cherished version of the truth...until indisputable factual evidence crashes head on with your "truth" - and then we'll see how committed you are to it.

You fundamentalists have a solidly-established historical track record in this regard - and it argues much more persuasicely than your easily made assertions.

“Most men would kill the truth if truth would kill their religion.” Lemuel K. Washburn

Mr. A once again asserts: “What did surprise me is...

2009-09-10T08:48:04.471+12:00

Mr. A once again asserts:
“What did surprise me is that you can't even prove your own belief!! You totally blew it off!! I thought for sure that you would at least try to explain your own belief of how matter just appeared out of thin air (well, actually, out of a vacuum, air didn't even exist yet, but I would have enjoyed your attempted explaination of that as well...)

But Mr. A, come on, how can I possible explain or defend a position I have never claimed a belief in?

To repeat a biblical quote from a previous response I made to you, because you obviously could use it:

“He who answers a matter BEFORE he hears it, it is folly and shame to him." (Prov. 18:13)

And also, now that you brought it up, how DID your God just magically appear out of thin air, or a vacuum, or nothing, or whatever?

That question HAS indeed always been a mystery to me. Fundamentalists ridiculed 20th century steady-state physicists who said the universe didn’t need an explanation, that it always just existed, and therefore didn’t require a beginning. And then fundamentalists replied, with absolutely searing logic, that the REAL explanation is that God made it, and He doesn’t need an explanation, because He just always existed, and therefore doesn’t require a beginning.

Could you even remotely explain the logic of this “explanation” to me, and to others who may be reading here?

And yes, I’ll bet you WOULD have enjoyed me trying to explain about something I don’t even claim to believe in, especially when you’ve already decided to ridicule it ahead of even knowing what it was I was going to explain.

Mr. A, by this time clearly losing control of his rational faculties, opines:
“What's the matter Leonardo (pun intended)?? You missed that part of my last blog?? Talk about neglectful reading - or did you purposefully ignored it because you thought, "I'm so clever in my rebuttal, he won't even notice that I'm a hypocrite"!!

Ah, OK, well…could you perhaps rephrase this meaningless series of rants again, perhaps in a way that I CAN SOMEHOW ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS YOU’RE TRYING TO SAY?

And finally, Mr. A ends his compelling argument with a powerful conclusion, going out with gracious, heart-warming class, being the civilized gentleman that he is:
“You're a joke!! Here's a tip, if you can't answer your own question/challenge - don't pose it and you won't be exposed as the arrogant, ignorant little fool that you are!

There you go, Mr. A - now THAT'S the kind of cruel ad hominem I would expect from a fundamentalist Christian. Yes, Sir! And one that really delivers a fatal blow to the carefully-reasoned arguments of the skeptics.

You’ve really DELIVERED here in this series of blogs, I'll have to give it to you, Mr A.

I’m left speechless, and stand in totally humbled submission to your obviously searing logic and superior intellect.

Now, where’s that remote control?!

Well Gavin, I think your initial decision to NOT p...

2009-09-10T08:32:27.534+12:00

Well Gavin, I think your initial decision to NOT post the blatantly ad hominem rant of the fundamentalist anonymous blogger who’s been challenging me lately was a correct one.

However, since you’ve repented of your first decision, being quite correctly persuaded by the cool, carefully-reasoned and irrefutable rhetoric of Mr. Anonymous, I guess I’ll just have to respond to some of his powerful statements. (Oh man, and I was planning on relaxing in front of the TV tonight for a little break! Nuts!)

Mr. Anonymous begins:
“Leonardo... Leonardo.... Leonardo... you poor old fool!”

Now STOP that, Mr. A – not only are your ad hominem accusations hurting my delicate little feelings, but they are plainly adding to the store of overwhelming evidence you’ve thus far accumulated and so articulately advanced in support of your religious assertions. Keep that up and soon I’ll have no other alternative but to walk off the field of argument – humiliated, refuted, and totally broken in spirit, never able to make another comment again on this website.

Mr. A continues:
“I understand that the bible is a mystery to you.”

Hey, please give me at least a little credit, Mr. A – I did go through four years of Ambassador College, AND I understand enough of it to remember what Jesus said in Matthew 5:22(b): “…whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.”

Or will you now conduct yet another exhausting period of research out on the Internet, and provide us all with links to Jewish websites that cite ancient rabbis arguing back and forth with each other to the effect that Jesus didn’t really say this, that he actually meant something entirely different?

Just wondering.

Mr. A, we’ve only just begun, and already you have established yourself beyond question, not only as a powerful thinker and rhetoretician, but you’ve demonstrated to the rest of us how you really “walk the walk” when it comes to carefully living by the words of your Savior in relations with your fellow man.

He goes on to say:
“My intent was to hit you with your own medicine and have you attempt to prove what you believe (the big bang THEORY)…”

But Mr. A, to my knowledge I’ve never personally argued for this hypothesis at all, nor ever proclaimed a firm belief in it (except for the very brief comments I made to you in my last response).

Sorry, but in your zeal to publically refute an infidel, it seems you’re guilty of making a very careless assumption as to my views. Talk about knocking down a strawman! However, I guess you couldn’t really help it, since you’ve already decided beforehand (as you openly proclaimed in another one of your previously rambling comments) to find contradictions in my views BEFORE even showing me the courtesy of getting to know what they actually are!

But I forgot, you worship a God who reveals things that are not, before they actually happen, right? That’s it! So this must explain how you can refute the beliefs of your opponents before even knowing specifically what they are.

"But let me grant you something, for the sake...

2009-09-10T08:23:30.134+12:00

"But let me grant you something, for the sake of the argument: what IF the Big Bang is finally proven to NOT have taken place at all, as modern scientists assert?"

Modern scientists are now onto the E8 theorem, which pretty much blows the big bang theory, and its descendant, string theory, completely out of the water.

Think outside the frakkin' box fundies!!

Hey, Anonymous 7:27! What do you think of people ...

2009-09-10T07:12:56.989+12:00

Hey, Anonymous 7:27! What do you think of people like myself who believe that God used natural laws and processes to orchestrate creation? I am thoroughly convinced from the fossil record, Einstein, fractal design, and String Theory that God used the Big Bang and Evolution to create all we see around us. He carefully controlled the process, which is why our planet is a very refreshing isle of order and stability smack dab in the middle of the sea of entropy.

BB

I'd like to take this opportunity to exhort al...

2009-09-10T07:04:30.439+12:00

I'd like to take this opportunity to exhort all of our believer friends here not to be too hard on the atheists. Atheism actually does serve a very practical purpose. Learned theologians, on studying the topic of damnation, have pointed out that among other things, damnation involves total and permanent separation from God and His love. Atheism provides us all with an opportunity to take a "test drive" of this right now, during our human lives. It's all part of the free will system upon which God set mankind in the various permutations of human journey.

Those who enjoy this test drive will have an opportunity to make the arrangement permanent. A three decade test drive was enough for me! Godlessness seems like freedom at first glance, but turns into one's worst nightmare with time. God is just totally awesome for allowing His children to check it out, though!

BB

"Anonymous" complains that his comment w...

2009-09-10T06:58:22.927+12:00

"Anonymous" complains that his comment wasn't published. Okay, here it is. Unedited. You be the judge whether this person adds anything to the conversation. In some ways it's a classic example of how not to get a word in here: angry, insulting and illogical... needless to say, it's also anonymous! Very brave.

Leonardo... Leonardo.... Leonardo... you poor old fool!!

I did read the entirety of that article I pulled and creatively cut and pasted for you, and I intended you to read it all as well, so I knew that you would only pick out those parts and that's fine, I understand that the bible is a mystery to you.

My intent was to hit you with your own medicine and have you attempt to prove what you believe (the big bang THEORY), but I didn't want to be a hypocrite (like you are) and ignore your challenge - I wasn't trying to convince you, you are perfectly in your right to believe that the bible is full of contradictions - I hope that works out well for you...

What did surprise me is that you can't even prove your own belief!! You totally blew it off!! I thought for sure that you would at least try to explain your own belief of how matter just appeared out of thin air (well, actually, out of a vacuum, air didn't even exist yet, but I would have enjoyed your attempted explaination of that as well...)

What's the matter Leonardo (pun intended)?? You missed that part of my last blog?? Talk about neglectful reading - or did you purposefully ignored it because you thought, "I'm so clever in my rebuttal, he won't even notice that I'm a hypocrite"!!

You're a joke!! Here's a tip, if you can't answer your own question/challenge - don't pose it and you won't be exposed as the arrogant, ignorant little fool that you are!