Comments on Ambassador Watch: Dougie Mans the Ramparts

Well Wolf Track, the cistern is a bit dry... too m...

2007-06-04T14:24:00.000+12:00

Well Wolf Track, the cistern is a bit dry... too much paper to shuffle. But wait, maybe I could combine the two... exam swot on 1 Samuel and a first attempt at a Basil Wolverton "Bible Story" impersonation...

Hmm

You realise, if this doesn't work, you're to blame, right?

Where's Gavin? We need a new topic, bud.

2007-06-04T13:29:00.000+12:00

Where's Gavin? We need a new topic, bud.

Dennis,It occurs to me, that you, as a medical pro...

2007-06-04T13:05:00.000+12:00

Dennis,

It occurs to me, that you, as a medical professional, would have some view to establishments created and governed by substance abusers and the characteristics of them -- like churches, for instance.

As far as the research I've seen, the narcissism b...

2007-06-04T09:44:00.000+12:00

As far as the research I've seen, the narcissism begins in late teen years or young adulthood, focuses on competing for attention, generally for that of a parent the narcissist seeks a life time to please and be worthy to [in their own mind, since the reality may lie somewhere else] but never quite achieves what it is that they think will please the focus of their life.

Devoid of empathy, the narcissist needs other people as a mirror to gauge how they are doing with no real sense of self. The world revolves around them and no one else matters.

As with other conditions, one identical twin growing up in the same home may be narcissistic and the other not.

Narcissism as a diagnosed mental disorder is relatively new and was not included in the DSM until the latest edition, DSM IV.

In the end, none of us really care how it gets started: All we care about is the affect it has on us and the fact that without empathy, a narcissist is less than human.

That goes double for the narcissist without a conscience -- the psychopath.

As for either genetics or environment, behavior still boils down to a choice. Otherwise, the narcissist can blame on their parents and their parents can blame it on their parents and so on and so forth. It's so convenient to be able to place the blame elsewhere, rather than taking ownership and having accountability. Maybe the internal landscape can't change [or maybe it can], but the behavior sure can.

"The only study I am aware of that examined geneti...

2007-06-04T07:34:00.000+12:00

"The only study I am aware of that examined genetics and narcissism suggested that 64% of the variation was accounted for by genetics (Livesley WJ, Jang KL, Jackson DN and Vernon PA, Am J Psychiatry 1993 150(12):1826-1831). Of course, studies using other measures of narcissism are necessary in order to confirm or modify this figure. Nevertheless, narcissism and narcissistic responses to stress and trauma likely have significant genetic bases. Does this mean people with a particular genetic makeup are doomed to be narcissistic? Clearly the answer is no. Something else is at play—otherwise 100% of the trait variation would be accounted for by genetics. Perhaps, a predisposition towards narcissism is in place from birth, but a trigger or particular kind of environment is needed to set the disorder in motion. Alternatively, a positive environment may prevent narcissism from taking hold in those who are predisposed."

Dr Richard Grossman

Probably like most topics, it's a bit of both and rarely all or nothing.

Almost right: It's Sam Vaknin.And yes, I have his ...

2007-06-04T07:10:00.000+12:00

Almost right: It's Sam Vaknin.

And yes, I have his book. He and I have traded e-mails. He used me [as his narcissistic self] as [a narcissistic] source for his shameless self-promotion.

But just because he, as a narcissist, or anybody else, are not optimistic about recovering from narcissism, does not mean that it was not a choice.

Sometimes when a person makes a deliberate choice, let's say of addicting drugs, it may mean a life of attempting but being unable to recover. And of all the addictive drugs there are, narcissism is the most potent and persistent.

That is why, when ministers choose the path of aggrandizement, they oft set upon the destructive path of narcissism, not that it is so much destructive to them personally as it is to those who come in contact with them.

"Narcissism is a choice, not a physiological manda...

2007-06-04T05:31:00.000+12:00

"Narcissism is a choice, not a physiological mandate."

Some would disagree. Sam Varkin, author of Malignant Self Love seems to feel that any kind of rehab has proven historically fruitless.

"If you are a "fixer", then focus on fixing situations, preferably before they become "situations". Don't for one moment delude yourself that you can FIX the narcissist - it simply will not happen. Not because they are being stubborn - they just simply can't be fixed."

Sam Varkin

"There's only one way to do that: In the Taverns o...

2007-06-04T04:58:00.000+12:00

"There's only one way to do that: In the Taverns open in Israel on that Day of Pentecost, as the people ate out at Restaurants on the Annual Sabbath and drank in bars."

Oh Absolute(ly) not! They were closed for the Holyday. The Apostles had special edition autographed flasks given out by Jesus, at Passover, as a token of his appreciation for their efforts.

When James asked Peter what he was doing with Judas flask too? Peter said..."well what's he gonna need it now for?" James said, "Well I suppose the one who denies Jesus may as well keep the flask of the guy that betrayed him."

A good laugh was had by all...

It's not a light or off the wall concept with what...

2007-06-04T04:57:00.000+12:00

It's not a light or off the wall concept with what we know today of mental illness mixed with religious delusional thinking.

I must object: Mental illness is physiological for the most part and is a valid excuse for delusional thinking.

In modern times, the problem today is not mental illness, it is mental disorder of the personality disorder type: Narcissism is a choice, not a physiological mandate.

No, wait. You weren't talking about that.

Sorry.

...but not to worry...the Apostles were released a...

2007-06-04T04:34:00.000+12:00

...but not to worry...the Apostles were released a few hours later and charged with only a simple PUI (Praying Under the Influence) and in that day, 3000 rejoiced.

Very funny.

3,000 added in one day.

There's only one way to do that: In the Taverns open in Israel on that Day of Pentecost, as the people ate out at Restaurants on the Annual Sabbath and drank in bars.

...but not to worry...the Apostles were released a...

2007-06-04T04:14:00.000+12:00

...but not to worry...the Apostles were released a few hours later and charged with only a simple PUI (Praying Under the Influence) and in that day, 3000 rejoiced.

"You forgot Noah. He drank."It was just a methane ...

2007-06-04T04:05:00.000+12:00

"You forgot Noah. He drank."

It was just a methane from Ark waste exerience, but since they didn't know about methane in the olden days, they attibuted it to drunkenness. The whole family was loopy when they got off the Ark and they all did amazing thingst to each other. Tons of dino poop methane alone can do that to ya!

Now I would grant that perhaps those guys at Pentecost were drinking as the crowd suspected.

"Acts 2:13 "Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."

See this indicates the Apostles had been drinking but they drank "too much" When arrested by the Romans, Peter cried out.."but Noah did it toooooooo!" :)

Dennis,You forgot Noah.He drank.

2007-06-04T03:34:00.000+12:00

Dennis,

You forgot Noah.

He drank.

PS "What is the difference between being mentally ...

2007-06-04T01:01:00.000+12:00

PS

"What is the difference between being mentally ill and prophetic?"

People who hear voices and see things that aren't there can be classified into two groups. The first group are people who cannot cope with these voices and are called mentally ill. The second group are people who can cope with the voices and are called psychic.

Being psychic and being psychotic are the same thing depending upon how you cope with it. Society in general regards people who talk to God as holy. But society in general regards people whom God talks to as insane.

Before this blog topic wraps up, just a few exampl...

2007-06-04T00:56:00.000+12:00

Before this blog topic wraps up, just a few examples of why mental illness may have played a part in the evolving story and theology of the Bible. It's not a light or off the wall concept with what we know today of mental illness mixed with religious delusional thinking.

Abraham:
He hears Yahweh?s voice, giving him orders, and claims Yahweh visits him.

He thinks he is the progenitor of a numerous progeny, though at first he cannot have children with Sarah.

He offers his wife for the pleasure of the Pharaoh and of chieftain Abimelek.

He considers himself Yahweh?s chosen one, elevated above all other tribes.

He institutes male circumcision, and gives it the symbolical meaning of the Covenant with Yahweh.

He sends his eldest son Ismael, together with the latter's mother, the slave girl Hagar, into the desert.

He wants to kill his and Sarah?s son Isaac.

This is not a normal behaviour pattern. Yet, it is not entirely inconsistent. In fact, the psychopathologist recognizes a typical pattern: the syndrome called paranoia. In this mental disease, the patient suffers from persistent thoughts that are in conflict with reality. Typical delusions are: being persecuted by an enemy, being endowed with a special mission or special powers, belonging to a family of otherworldly descent. These delusions can be accompanied by hallucinations, usually the well-known phenomenon of hearing voices. Often these voices command him to commit very specific symbolical acts, sometimes specific crimes. The refusal of one's own sexuality, as well as sexual impotence, often accompany this condition.

Moses:

domineering and vindictive behaviour;

impulsive, inclined to violence;

intolerant of disagreement;

waves of bad temper, explosions;

over-social, wants to serve, has a sense of fairness (so that their angry explosions are occasioned by perceived injustice);

meticulous, order-loving, pedantic;

persistent and tough;

speech disturbances may occur (certain similarity, on a less physical level, with epilepsy).

Jeremiah:

Jeremiah, the prophet of doom par excellence, is a clear case of paranoia querulans. Israel has fallen and will be punished. The king of Babylon who subdues Israel is merely God's punishing arm; which will not save him, the idolater, from equally being punished in the end. Jeremiah is against everyone, including rivalling godmen and prophets, and God?s revenge will be total. His immense hatred for everyone who disagrees and his hammering on always the same allegations and promises of doom, and a secondary delusion of being persecuted, are typical signs of querulous paranoia.

The book Jeremiah teaches us nothing about God, it illustrates how a sick mind pictures God in terms of his own delusion? Jeremiah shows a characteristic trait of the paranoia patient: a deadly hatred against everyone who disagrees with him, a totally disproportionate reaction to the ?other opinion, inspired by hurt narcissism. The inflated ego is invested with divine dignity and power. Whoever speaks up against God, must die. In a sense, this is a diagnosis of not only Jeremiah, but of prophethood itself.

Ezekiel:

Ezekiel, we see a typical development of this condition: he gets hallucinatory visions, develops an increasingly bizarre behaviour, isolates himself. In moments of calm, he relates his visions to others and gives detailed descriptions.

Not every schizophrenia patient makes it to the status of prophethood. Ezekiel was not an extreme case, and he was a literate man who could somehow make his visions relevant through religion, which made them interesting for the Bible editors. It was also his initial deep religiosity that made him vulnerable to emotional collapse when Jerusalem fell, its temple usurped by Baal priests, and the people (at least, the elite) forced into exile in Babel. Unlike many fellow Hebrews, he could not adapt to this Pagan city full of opportunity, and his emotional collapse developed into a permanent mental affliction.

(Dr. Herman H. Somers, M.A. in Philosophy, Ph.D. in Classical Philology (i.e. Latin and Greek), Ph.D. in Theology, and Ph.D. in Psychology.)

Probably a topic that deserves it's own posting but I can think of certain one man shows in current Church history both COG and Mainstream who may not be so much inspired as ill. Mental illness expressed through the filter of religion is the most deceptive and damaging of all it seems.

It is extremely difficult for the western mind to even begin to think that present day religious belief may come from the illusions and delusions of those in the past. Hot topic I know. Whole governments rise and fall on the mental illnesses of their leaders as well.

Is it OK to lie to your fish and tell them that yo...

2007-06-03T11:03:00.000+12:00

Is it OK to lie to your fish and tell them that you are singing that folk song from the Musical Hair, lyrics by James Rado & Gerome Ragni and music by Galt MacDermot, This is the Dawning of the Age of Aquariums?

As for Scotch, just lie to him too and tell him that I told him to "forgive you".

What's a few letters off, when we have such a rich gloriously verdant background of the Churches of God to guide us into all... well... something.

Well yes...Screeching Elder would be a good start....

2007-06-03T10:42:00.000+12:00

Well yes...Screeching Elder would be a good start. I would insist on my being Non-Prophet however and while the Bible does encourage me to sucker,no wait, it's succour, the brethren, I will not yield to asking them to bow their heads by saying "Let us Prey." Also, I would not tolerate shits or splisms in the congregation.

I did make the mistake once of using vodka once inplace of the water usually taken at the appropriate time in sermons. Gave a great sermon...but later I was told that "David slew Goliath..he didn't beat the hell out of him."

little joke there....

PS You do not want me to tell Scotch that Douglas said to tell him "forget you." trust me :)

Since you have a cat, we will give you wide latitu...

2007-06-03T10:00:00.000+12:00

Since you have a cat, we will give you wide latitude. We understand where you are coming from ;-]

Have you considered starting out as a "Screeching Elder"? Used to be very popular beginning for WCG careers, what with the "spare not" crowd.

Forget your fish and cat. There are so many cockroaches out there that need the encouragement of the hope of salvation. After all, they will probably outlast humanity.

Ok Douglas, I understand that!:)I prefer to be ref...

2007-06-03T09:26:00.000+12:00

Ok Douglas, I understand that!:)

I prefer to be referred to as "High Priest of Marduk" One of the "great" internet apologists who has the Christian finess of a snake called me that and I kinda like it. "HPoM" is fine too :)

I was on the fast track to ministerial success when ordained a Local elder after college, then a Preeeeching Elder six months later. I figured I'd be a "Pastor" in a year and then the sky would be the limit, but alas and sadly, it stopped and I got stuck for the next quarter century. I think they were on to me early....

I am considering a four hour sermon convincing my cat and two fish, who are my only audience at the moment, I am an Apostle...I'm not thinking Scotch the Cat will be impressed.

DennisDiehl said... Doug...I'm sensing in your ...

2007-06-03T09:12:00.000+12:00

DennisDiehl said...

Doug...I'm sensing in your last dozen comments a common thread...

Yes, indeed.

Four drink minimum is mandatory!

[A nit: I prefer "Douglas", particularly with this particular current topic. It will minimize misunderstandings....]

PS: XCG is for goofing. Well, OK. You can do it here too!

Religion Under Fire tells us:"a handful of militan...

2007-06-03T07:14:00.000+12:00

Religion Under Fire tells us:

"a handful of militant atheists have launched a frontal assault on God"

I would think this would not impress or terrorize God

"Their deliberate attack on religious belief is remarkable because it ignores the lessons of history and the discoveries of modern science!"

I suppose any noticing of a problem with a Biblical topic would seem deliberate. I believe it depends on what one wishes their "modern science" to back up.

"The appearance of such deliberate attacks.... is significant in ways that few realize."

Well there are reasons why few realize things that aren't true.

" Before you accept misleading ideas and arguments, you need to understand why these issues are erupting today!"

I personally believe it might be due to one of the few prophecies that makes sense...'and knowledge shall be increased.'

" Modern atheists like to promote the idea that their anti-religious views are scientific"

Let's see, remove "atheists" replace with Christians and erase "anti" and .....your point is?

"religion as an illusion, an infantile delusion and a form of mental illness,"

Please check OT references to Ezekiel going naked for three years, cooking with his own poop, lying on his side for extended periods of time and laying seige to a frying pan...among others....

"Real faith is not blind faith—it is belief based on substantial evidence!"

Thirty years and waiting.....

"Dawkins asserts, "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser… homophobic, racist… malevolent bully… psychotic delinquent… the monster of the Bible"

And your point?

"He completely overlooks the evidence that the Bible is a totally unique text"

There are no totally unique texts.

"He claims New Testament writers made the events of Jesus’ life conform to Old Testament prophecies."

Umm, errrrm....oh how do I explain this nicely?

"yet he fails to mention how the Bible describes prophetic promises that revealed the future of Abraham’s descendants long before they arrived on the scene (for more on this vital topic, request our free booklet, The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy)."

Oh Zule you nut...

"True believers in Darwinism simply refuse to accept any other explanation for why the world is the way it is—regardless of the evidence,"

Substitute "Literalism" for "Darwinism"

"Theological historian McGrath writes that one of Darwinism’s major consequences is that "evolutionary theory leads to a godless, purposeless world"

Secular humanists write often that one of Fundamentalisms and Literalist Christianity's major consequence is family alienation, marginalization, depression, hopelessness, financial strain, skepticism and hives.

"Contrary to the expectations of secular thinkers, the last half of the 20th century has witnessed the "twilight" of the rule of atheism"

We'll see...since when does any COG look forward to the rise of more false religion? They will kill you thinking they do God a service, won't they? For you're own safety, I'd pray for more non believers!

"The Bible clearly reveals that a time of judgment is coming (Revelation 11:15–18)—Dawkins, Harris and their collaborators have reason to be concerned!"

Uh oh...the big guns...

" Dawkins dismisses the book of Revelation, of course, calling it "one of the weirdest books in the Bible"

Luther wanted it out too, along with the Book of James. Good thing it's there, or there'd be no good source material for this article and most of the COG mindset of "time is short."

"If you read your Bible, you will continue to see how true biblical religion is relevant and prophetically significant in ways that few realize today!"

(See above comment on the reason few realize things.)

Sorry for the long posting. Just goofin here.

A couple of observations on the DW article:1, He s...

2007-06-03T06:19:00.000+12:00

A couple of observations on the DW article:

1, He speaks of a "frontal assault on God and religion". Why is this unfair when Christianity's stated mission is to propagandize its philosophy .

2. He speaks of the "Global resurgence of religion". If he thinks this kind of bluster helps his cause, I fail to see how. He can't be too pleased that religion is increasingly being abandoned by those that matter, the educated.

Doug...I'm sensing in your last dozen comments a c...

2007-06-03T05:34:00.000+12:00

Doug...I'm sensing in your last dozen comments a common thread...

Ah, what we wouldn't give for a breathalyzer!Propo...

2007-06-03T05:20:00.000+12:00

Ah, what we wouldn't give for a breathalyzer!

Propose that every writer for church of Gods be given a blood test for drugs and alcohol in conjunction with their product.

"Present day Christian scholarship attempts to PRO...

2007-06-03T05:09:00.000+12:00

"Present day Christian scholarship attempts to PROTECT believers from ideas and concepts that might undermine their faith. Clergy are not encouraged by their teachers (if they had honest and well educated ones) to speak from the pulpit of what they have learned behind seminary walls, and are directed to preach the old, old story as if nothing dramatic has taken place in either the 19th or 20th century scholarship. And so the gap between pew sitter and academic grows ever wider and the church people automatically split into "liberal or "conservative camps, each view the other across tension filled gaps...For in spite of academic aloofness and censorship by the clergy, the truth of what is going on cannot be altogether hidden, Intelligent men and women simply do not stand about idly, they find out what they want to know for themselves."

The days of, did you read that really good article that so and so wrote on evolution, or atheism or how stupid the discoveries of others are in comparison to the what the church "knows" are over.

If you read Davey Crockett's (LCG)articles on the 10 Dumbest Human Ideas, you'll see how pathetic their deep spiritual truths are.

Sanctified ignorance is still ignorance....