Comments on Ambassador Watch: Ekklesia

Sorry - cite. I ain't that igerant!

2008-03-05T06:16:00.000+13:00

Sorry - cite. I ain't that igerant!

'So you arrived at your view from reading the Bibl...

2008-03-05T06:15:00.000+13:00

'So you arrived at your view from reading the Bible? '

Yes, Paul - from the Bible. I find it is a source of encouragement and daily guidance. And I like the hope it offers through the resurrection from death.

PS The text you site refers to the fact that we all die, man and the 'lower' creation. It says nothing about the after-life

"Only man-kind is 'in the image of God'. Sorry - n...

2008-03-03T14:21:00.000+13:00

"Only man-kind is 'in the image of God'. Sorry - no dogs in the Kingdom, or flies."

So you arrived at your view from reading the Bible? That's your supporting evidence? The Bible? This is the difference between us. I believe that there is no life after death based on lack of evidence. You believe in life after death based on a book you read which also features talking animals. Do you see the problem here? Your judgement isn't sound. It isn't based in reality.

Paul

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?"Ever ...

2008-03-03T11:34:00.000+13:00

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?"

Ever see anything after death? No? Well, I guess that settles it.

"Only man-kind is 'in the image of God'. Sorry - no dogs in the Kingdom, or flies."

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Baashabob said... To Bill Ferguson: Hi Bill....

2008-03-03T10:19:00.000+13:00

Baashabob said...

To Bill Ferguson:

Hi Bill. If Gavin says your site is worthwhile then that is good enough for me. As long as you are fixing things up perhaps you could resurrect the dead links to join. I have tried both listserv@quango.net and sysadmin@quango.net and both come back as "recipient unknown".

Bob E.

Those links will be changed to a webboard link. The mailing list is moving to a web forum that can be also accessed via email.

In the meantime I'll check the aliases for those addresses and see if they are still correct.

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?" Anon...

2008-03-02T22:48:00.000+13:00

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?" Anon

How did I miss such flawless logic?!?! And if there is life after death-which there most certainly is- then there must be a God! And this God must be the God of the Bible! I have been reconverted in a matter of seconds. Thanks, Anon!!
Paul

I don't see in the previous comment any implication concerning the alternative - that there is life after death. Logic? Straw men?

Paul again: By the way, do you believe that all living creatures experience an afterlife? If not, why? Also, where do you get the idea that there is life after death? What evidence brought you to this conclusion??

Only man-kind is 'in the image of God'. Sorry - no dogs in the Kingdom, or flies.

Uhhhhh those verses should be from 2 Peter, by the...

2008-03-02T14:05:00.000+13:00

Uhhhhh those verses should be from 2 Peter, by the way.

(What do you want? I'm not exactly a bible scholar you know. :P)

Howzabout this, I can actually (shock!gasp!horror!...

2008-03-02T14:03:00.000+13:00

Howzabout this, I can actually (shock!gasp!horror!) quote the bible on what happens when you die:

3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

A lot of people misinterpret these verses as Armageddon. I dunno. It reads a lot like a metaphor for individual death to me. Proof-texted from that perspective, "all these things shall be dissolved" makes a lot more sense than the traditional christian interpretation of it.

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?"Sigh....

2008-03-02T13:45:00.000+13:00

"Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?"

Sigh. No, I can't. Aha! Therefore, there must be life after death! How did I miss such flawless logic?!?! And if there is life after death-which there most certainly is- then there must be a God! And this God must be the God of the Bible! I have been reconverted in a matter of seconds. Thanks, Anon!!

By the way, do you believe that all living creatures experience an afterlife? If not, why? Also, where do you get the idea that there is life after death? What evidence brought you to this conclusion??

Looking foward to your answer,
Paul

' I understand your original point. Yes, after dea...

2008-03-02T11:39:00.000+13:00

' I understand your original point. Yes, after death, "nothing."

It may be pessimistic, but at least it's not fantastical and unsubtantiated Paul '

Can Paul prove there's nothing after death?

To Bill Ferguson:Hi Bill. If Gavin says your site...

2008-03-02T09:49:00.000+13:00

To Bill Ferguson:

Hi Bill. If Gavin says your site is worthwhile then that is good enough for me. As long as you are fixing things up perhaps you could resurrect the dead links to join. I have tried both listserv@quango.net and sysadmin@quango.net and both come back as "recipient unknown".

Bob E.

HWA the saint? before cannonizing him, maybe one ...

2008-03-02T07:22:00.000+13:00

HWA the saint? before cannonizing him, maybe one should go down to the courthouse, read the divorce transcripts between he and Ramona, see what he pleaded the 5th on. Why would one plead the 5th if not for fear of being prosecuted for anti-moral conduct unbecoming a human...

As for the 18 revealed truths... look at the COG from the 1700s... they also believed in 12 tribes of Israel, Passover, Holy Days, etc. nothing new there.. just one man reading what they had to say and putting it into his own words and bi-line. get over this kissing the toe of the profit. if you want to do that, then go to Rome and kiss the toe of st. Peter. (that is if you want to take a chance of getting a good viral disease from all the slobber that others leave.

really Tom, get a life

Glad to see Bill is back in business!As for Tom, e...

2008-03-02T06:41:00.000+13:00

Glad to see Bill is back in business!

As for Tom, evil is good and good is evil. Your world view is twisted. Seek help while you can.

I'm against cutting farts in public, especially du...

2008-03-02T04:59:00.000+13:00

I'm against cutting farts in public, especially during pleasant conversation. Ever notice that they seem to smell worse when an Armstrongite lets them?

Thanks for the kind comments Gavin!The site does n...

2008-03-02T02:56:00.000+13:00

Thanks for the kind comments Gavin!

The site does need reworking, what can I say, I've neglected the web page for years. I'm fixing it up.

I shut down the list for for a while but popular demand brought it back, people enjoyed talking to each other, and now its become a family of sorts. We don't talk a whole lot about the WCG anymore, we're pretty far past those petty concerns.

I've kept historical documents online for those that may need them. The trajectory out of the WCG/PCG/UCG/LCG etc still seems to roughly the same learning curve in spite of all the years. Some can deny the obvious for decades. But we don't lose hope for any of our former brethren.

Also thanks to others for the constructive comments regarding navigation on the site, that will be changing shortly, as will the background screen that is now far too short for modern HD monitors. Like who would have thought monitors would someday exceed 1000 pixels in width back in 1994? :)

It has been wonderful to watch in action what I inspired, taking to levels I never could have done on my own by others. There are so many good resources on Armstrongism now and they are done so well. I don't control them, I don't create them, I don't even know some of them, yet order and creativity comes out of the chaos. Imagine that, WCGers with brains! Some with theology degrees even! Armstrong never put to use the talent he had within his organization! It was always about HIM.

It was this concept of distributed cellular growth that I tried in vain to get Joe Tkach to change the WCG towards in January 1997, but he insisted on sticking to the brutalizing hierarchy of HWA. Joe certainly has more money than I do I suppose...but his church is nearly gone.

PS: I had one run-in with someone at ESN, I don't know if it was "Dee who shall not be named" but they seemed to me to be bit paranoid. ESN seemed to be upset at one time that I had a public domain WCG sourced document they also had and suggested I pilfered it from them. I got it from a different source. I had no patience for that accusatory nonsense. They suffer from a serious lack of sense of humor. Not someone I'd counsel with. Although they might have the right to claim to be the first online repository of WCG information, if you include their history on Compuserve prior to the invention of the Web browser in 1993-94.

If my memory is correct I think they charged for their information or their newsletter, but I might be wrong about that. They were kind of like AR, but set up as cottage industry that was going to make a living out of deprogramming members out of the WCG.

The truth is, nobody could have done a better job of deprogramming members out of the WCG than Joe Tkach Jr and Greg Albrecht! Although I don't think that was their intent.

Tom Mahamster said...."Still, when you are BERRIED...

2008-03-02T02:22:00.000+13:00

Tom Mahamster said....

"Still, when you are BERRIED like the rich man, and lift up your head in hell,"

BTW,...Is that like saying "that rich guy has heuvos?"

He's berried like BULL!

To Gavin:Thanks for the heads-up on the Ekklesia s...

2008-03-01T21:00:00.000+13:00

To Gavin:
Thanks for the heads-up on the Ekklesia site.
And as far as the ESN site goes, I think "monstrosity" is a good term. I know of someone who submitted information to them only to have ESN INSIST that the person MUST have counseling of their variety. When the person politely declined, ESN got quite nasty with her.

And to Tom:
You may be surprised to learn as you suffer in Hell with "berry bosom"(purple nurple) torment, and you lift your head and cry out for just one drop of neosporin, that your request will be denied as the innocent laugh and scorn you.
However, you may be happy to learn that Herbie WILL blow farts at you while you pucker and kiss his butt and insist they are the sweetest smells ever. Herbie may shower you with other gifts, too! Behold, thine torment shall golden be.
Verily I say unto you, O Tom, are you ready to receive the "Gifts of the Herbie", spoken in the Perfect Language through his flapping lips?
Of course you are, just more of the same-old same-old for your appetite!
Bon appetit!

Tired Skeptic wrote, "Ah, can the death threats fr...

2008-03-01T18:20:00.000+13:00

Tired Skeptic wrote, "Ah, can the death threats from "Christian" Armstrongists be far behind... again."

MY COMMENT - Self Righteous Tom Moron, the Judge of Eternal Salvation over all of us, has already given you a death threat with his ASSinine statement:

"Still, when you are berried like the rich man, and lift up your head in hell, and see HWA in Abraham's bosom, you may wish to ask him for a drop of water to assuage your torment".

Sounds like a Lake of Fire death threat to me.

Richard

Dennis Diehl wrote, "Tom's comments are like a far...

2008-03-01T18:12:00.000+13:00

Dennis Diehl wrote, "Tom's comments are like a fart in the middle of a good conversation with friends. It eventually gets diluted, but we still have to endure it for a bit as we note its presence."

MY COMMENT - Dennis, it could be argued that self righteous Tom Moron IS THE FART in the middle of a good conversation with friends, not his comments.

Richard

Ah, can the death threats from "Christian" Armstro...

2008-03-01T15:59:00.000+13:00

Ah, can the death threats from "Christian" Armstrongists be far behind... again.

I learned about the Feasts on my at the age of 11 ...

2008-03-01T15:12:00.000+13:00

I learned about the Feasts on my at the age of 11 while I was reading through the Old Testament without any "benefit" from a false prophet cult leader.

And all it took this time was one push of one hot ...

2008-03-01T14:54:00.000+13:00

And all it took this time was one push of one hot button to produce wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I am an optimist! (Watch out!!! Here comes an Amb...

2008-03-01T14:29:00.000+13:00

I am an optimist! (Watch out!!! Here comes an Ambassador College cliche!!!!) "Tom has come here to change." Let's not ban him. We might find that we've elliminated a future friend!

BB

Has anyone received a picture of Tom?

2008-03-01T13:54:00.000+13:00

Has anyone received a picture of Tom?

"To me, believing all the talented people that hav...

2008-03-01T13:50:00.000+13:00

"To me, believing all the talented people that have lived there lives (& the untalented as well of course), at death that is the end of their ideas, creativity etc. is pessimistic."

I understand your original point. Yes, after death, "nothing."

It may be pessimistic, but at least it's not fantastical and unsubtantiated.

Paul