Comments on Ambassador Watch: Well shucks...

Politics as usual in the CofG'sHow very sad

2008-05-23T11:08:00.000+12:00

Politics as usual in the CofG's
How very sad

Re: Ron Kelly:"I understand he enjoys retirement n...

2008-05-23T02:49:00.000+12:00

Re: Ron Kelly:

"I understand he enjoys retirement now doing Fall for Jesus Non-Festival Cruises."

That explains why the WW blog got a hit yesterday morning from someone on a Royal Princess cruise ship --- and yesterday evening a hit from someone in Glendora, CA.

Bit early for Tabernacles, but they're right in the middle of the protestants' month-long pentecostal thing aren't they?

After all that is said and done, the Council of Ev...

2008-05-23T00:13:00.000+12:00

After all that is said and done, the Council of Evil will do exactly what they want to do by using the church corporate governance against the general council.

It's one man one vote, with the only vote that counts -- who ever is in charge.

Nothing ever changes.

Just remember: In United, no one is exactly who they seem to be.

Gavin,A whiff of schismatic ozone...perhaps the Ge...

2008-05-22T15:47:00.000+12:00

Gavin,

A whiff of schismatic ozone...perhaps the German homonym might be more appropriate.

Cheers,

Jorgheinz

"Why would anything other than the results need to...

2008-05-22T10:41:00.000+12:00

"Why would anything other than the results need to be posted again?"

Four different UCG amendments were voted on- and four shot down. The total yes and no ministerial votes taken on these four seperate bills to amend weren't posted in the latest United News. Now THAT would be informative.

You are so informed about these four amendments. Which did you want to see or not see UCG pass?

"The UCG article today doesn't even describe the a...

2008-05-22T10:22:00.000+12:00

"The UCG article today doesn't even describe the amendments that were voted on, excuse me, balloted down. How informative."

The list of amendments have been posted at each local church for several weeks leading up to the GCE. They were also all covered during the announcement period during services the week before (at least in my area). I believe it was even in the most recent United News.

Why would anything other than the results need to be posted again?

Joe Tkach, Robbin Webber and Mike Feazell were all...

2008-05-22T08:45:00.000+12:00

Joe Tkach, Robbin Webber and Mike Feazell were all close Imperial School mate kids. As an outside observer of them in college, they all three seemed like they had had the crap and confidence kicked out of them by strong dominating parents. Mike had a less than secure childhood if I remember correctly.

It took years for them to find their own identies which still reflect their probably rather rough past with religion over which they had no control in their lives as kids.

Robbin was very boring a speaker and he always seemed like he couldn't give himself permission to speak without looking around to see if it was ok.

Anonymous said... "Good OLD Robin Webber" I ...

2008-05-22T08:15:00.000+12:00

Anonymous said...

"Good OLD Robin Webber"

I was being sarcastic in calling him that. Though he is old now.

He was a tyrant wrecking lives under Tkach Sr's nose. People were scared to cross his path because they knew he was Sr's 'favorite son'.

There is absolutely NOTHING admirable about Robin.

***********

I've heard enough of Robin Webber's sermons to know he's BORING. He could suck the joy out of entire Rose Bowel parade!

He always had the facial expression of someone who just had the crap kicked out of them.

I've never dealt with him in Preacher-Lay person way. He'd be one of the last I'd have gone to for that.

If we postulate that Aaron Dean is "guiding" the b...

2008-05-22T05:13:00.000+12:00

If we postulate that Aaron Dean is "guiding" the balloting process, this would seem to indicate that a correction is taking place at UCG.

A ballot correction to make Aaron Dean UCG President. Dean made Tkach Jr. the choice for WCG Pastor General, now he gets to be king of the UCG!

GTA used to tell a story about Leon Walker. Appar...

2008-05-22T04:37:00.000+12:00

GTA used to tell a story about Leon Walker. Apparently, Leon came to Puerto Rico WCG in 1994, and during the announcements portion of the Sabbath service, told them that their pastor was going to Pasadena for 6 months of "training". Knowing what this meant, 90% of the congregation walked out. Sounds like Leon has been rebuffed again.

Well, OK, how do we take this all in?If we postula...

2008-05-22T03:54:00.000+12:00

Well, OK, how do we take this all in?

If we postulate that God is guiding the balloting process, this would seem to indicate that a correction is taking place at UCG.
I knew some of these people whose names have been brought up, many years ago. Often, that is of no value, because the authoritarian structure of the ACOGs has warped and changed many of those who have been sucked into it. I can't imagine some of the innocent and docile Imperial School students whom I knew way back when, doing some of the things attributed to them. But, not having been in WCG or any splinter for over 30 years, I take everyone's word for the fact that these guys might have been morphed into monsters.

A more logical point of view, is that United is simply a man made organization, run as a corporation by people who were never part of the corporate world. We get to watch them bungle through the jungle, and it is often amusing. WCG/HWA deluded us all into believing that the Holy Spirit was present in his organization. But, the fruits were all carefully faked, a fact that becomes quite obvious considering the abyssimal failure of his very specific prophecies, and his healing doctrine which resulted in the death of so many whose illnesses need not have been terminal. Plus, when was HWA ever "slow to anger"? If the original WCG was suffering from a Spirit deficiency, or total lack, how could the imitators possibly have received anything by transferral?

No. This organization is simply a collection of good ol' boys who are perpetuating the works of a false teacher, have no understanding of the real gospel, and wouldn't know grace from a hole in the ground.

Sad, because some of our families are still blinded participants, but that is their responsibility. I pray for the individual members, but certainly not for the corporate organization which is enabling continued spiritual blindness.

BB

Ron Kelly are you listening? Where did the money f...

2008-05-22T03:11:00.000+12:00

Ron Kelly are you listening? Where did the money from the sale of the campus go? Straight into your pocket, or did you divvy it up with Junior and Weazell?

I asked the same thing when after being told "we would take care of retirement" he said, "now we can't because Jesus performed a great miracle in WCG and we lost a lot of support."

He didn't answer. When I asked if Jesus played a trick on us all until he decided to do the miracle, he said nothing. I understand he enjoys retirement now doing Fall for Jesus Non-Festival Cruises.

On another note. I'd still like to know how Randal Pack went from Saul to Paul in asking me "should I destroy my Dad with one letter I could write on the internet?" (I said no, he's your dad, let it run it's course,) to a highly paid minister in RCG, in just over two years.

I would never even mention this unless I was not completely stunned by the flip flop that was not a minor thing. Of course the answer, perhaps, is "ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh and I'll take care of everything."

"Dear Brethren,There seems to be no question but t...

2008-05-22T02:38:00.000+12:00

"Dear Brethren,
There seems to be no question but that end-time prophecy is being fulfilled at the gas pump....
http://www.cog-ff.com/"

What the...? gas pump? prophecy? You've lost me. Then again, how can you find anything in that cluttered Herbert worshiping website! That has got to be THE most bloated mess of a cog website I've ever seen!

Billingsley is the ultimate Herbert worshiper. The Father and Jesus come AFTER Herb in greatness. Or so it would seem from his website.

Billingsley also has the per capita record for splitting his congregation and devouring his own flock. He'll be a penny-less church of one soon, but at least he won't have anyone that disagree with him.

"Welcome to Webber who wants to dramatically incre...

2008-05-22T01:11:00.000+12:00

"Welcome to Webber who wants to dramatically increase expenditures on public proclamation."

Why is indoctrinating more people with Lifton's thought-reform principles a good thing?

Oh right.

"WCG has a whole Reconciliation Dept dedicated to reconciliation with the wrong people."

Ain't that the truth! ORM wants to buddy up and "apologize" to people who were never former members in the first place, who neither want nor need said apology!

Ron Kelly are you listening? Where did the money from the sale of the campus go? Straight into your pocket, or did you divvy it up with Junior and Weazell?

"The May United News says the 2009-2009 $24.5 million dollar budget just approved by the GCE includes a 5% raise for the U.S. ministry, and $550,000 for financing and construction costs for the home office."

A few points on this one:

That's too much money, considering the membership numbers that are floated by both UCG and Thiel, with regards to UCG's numbers. Must have had a lot of "building fund" special offerings last year. :-(

A 5% raise for the Levitical priesthood --- that's shocking. Well not really.

$550K for construction and building costs for a move that is now no longer going to take place --- anyone besides me think it was just a straw man to milk the sheeple in the first place? The CoE probably never had any intentions of moving at all!

"Good OLD Robin Webber"I was being sarcastic in ca...

2008-05-21T17:55:00.000+12:00

"Good OLD Robin Webber"

I was being sarcastic in calling him that. Though he is old now.

He was a tyrant wrecking lives under Tkach Sr's nose. People were scared to cross his path because they knew he was Sr's 'favorite son'.

There is absolutely NOTHING admirable about Robin.

I watched him demand that thousands of dollars be spent each Feast in Pasadena for gift baskets for him and other ministers. This was while many members barely were able to eat at Lucky Boy's for 'Feast' meals.

Webber lived the high life at the expense of the members. It was with great delight that much of Pasadena rejoiced when he ran with his tail between his legs to UCG.

Sadly, his abuse continued on in UCG and still does to this day. How else would he make it to the Council of Elders. These are all men who have walked over peoples backs to get to the positions they are in. They still expect the accolades, nice cars and homes that come with being such important men in 'god's work.' A pox be on them all!

Blogger Lussenheide said...Jack Webber, Robin's D...

2008-05-21T17:46:00.000+12:00

Blogger Lussenheide said...

Jack Webber, Robin's Dad was a real card. Definitely a top 10 character to remember as Bamboo Bends mentioned.

Is his old man still alive?

He used to just crack me up. Was the kind of a guy who could use the ethic slur names, and everyone but the politically correct would laugh. Everyone knew there was no hatred or malice behind it. And it wasn't like he was preaching and had to set any example. He was just being true to his upbringing and generation.

I think the faculty and its British-Israel doctrines, and not letting black students date white girls were more racist than Jack Webber ever was.

Surprisingly, I never met any black people who were offended by him, he was real, and most blacks I have known like real people. Its the sneaky people that bother them.

He was kind of like Rodney Dangerfield in some ways.

I'd go seek him out if he was sitting in the student center, he always made me laugh!

What is happening at Untied is not surprising, giv...

2008-05-21T17:03:00.000+12:00

What is happening at Untied is not surprising, given that it was founded not as a vehicle to DO something, but as a means to just say no.

There is no overall common vision as to how to preach the gospel to the world. Or how about growing the church? The business model of the church has not changed from Harmstrong days, other than the boys on the inside get to rotate whose seat is in the chair.

Proclamations aside, what has really changed between Kilough and his predecessors? This is a boat no one wants to rock, hoping that all things hold together as the aging ministry retires and relies on HQ, wherever it is, to support them. I think the chances for a split are low - no one wants to insist on his ideas enough to risk losing all the other benefits they have by hanging together. Hirelings, as Mahon would say.

As for Aaron Dean, he's become the modern day Abishag the Shunnamite - the hot water bottle of the last mighty king. Keep him close to you and some of the last king's mojo will rub off on you, and give you some credibility as this sessions leader.

KMS

These votes may explain why Clyde Kilough's pre-Co...

2008-05-21T16:47:00.000+12:00

These votes may explain why Clyde Kilough's pre-Conference letter to UCG elders addressed the topic of spiritual maturity, even when there are disagreements. He reads from it extensively in the 5/15/08 "About Our Father's Business" video.

If the ministers and members are mature, there need be no split over the Home Office issue. Doctrinal disputes are another matter -- and are why I'm away from UCG right now.

But if you wanted a sign of UCG being "progressive," shouldn't the move out of Ohio have been upheld?

Aaron Dean for UCG President? Can't see that happening. It's a full-time Home Office job -- and he'd have to give up whatever he does now to do that.

Robin Webber has a monthly column in World News and Prophecy. He comes across there as a moderate-sounding minister for UCG.... emphasis on the sounding.

"This is backed up by the fact that the hardliners...

2008-05-21T12:30:00.000+12:00

"This is backed up by the fact that the hardliners I know of, from my old congregation(s) went, with one or two exceptions, with United, after the changes really hit hard.

United likes to promote itself as "the party church". But scratch the surface, listen to current and former members, and check out their version of AC......It's Back to the Future all right!"

I can second that. A sixties hardliner WCG deacon who turned elder in my local area went straight to United. He probably still worships the ground HWA walked on.

Dear Brethren,There seems to be no question but th...

2008-05-21T11:51:00.000+12:00

Dear Brethren,

There seems to be no question but that end-time prophecy is being fulfilled at the gas pump....

http://www.cog-ff.com/

"In all the years that he has lived here, there ha...

2008-05-21T11:48:00.000+12:00

"In all the years that he has lived here, there has not been ONE overture, one phone call, Zero Contact,"

Isn't that the truth! WCG has a whole Reconciliation Dept dedicated to reconciliation with the wrong people.

All:Robin Webber lives in my little town of Menif...

2008-05-21T10:50:00.000+12:00

All:

Robin Webber lives in my little town of Menifee, CA.

Once in a blue moon, my wife sees him floating around the Staples store.

In all the years that he has lived here, there has not been ONE overture, one phone call, Zero Contact, to the only "splinter group" that exists south of Pasadena all the way to Mexico, which is our group in Lake Elsinore CA, "Rock Valley Christian" which Gavin featured a month ago or so.

So someone can mouth the sounds of "communicating with other groups", but actions would speak alot louder than words.

Apology and humility from UCG would be a good first start. Also treating groups in an "adult-adult" fashion, not "Parent-Child".

PS- Jack Webber, Robin's Dad was a real card. Definitely a top 10 character to remember as Bamboo Bends mentioned.

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

The May United News says the 2009-2009 $24.5 mill...

2008-05-21T10:08:00.000+12:00

The May United News says the 2009-2009 $24.5 million dollar budget just approved by the GCE includes a 5% raise for the U.S. ministry, and $550,000 for financing and construction costs for the home office.

Were 362 confused UCG elders balloting FOR the 2007 resolution to relocate, remotely voting AGAINST the 2008 resolution? Or with the order or meaning reversed, vice versa?

I remember sitting through a painfully dull presen...

2008-05-21T09:55:00.000+12:00

I remember sitting through a painfully dull presentation by Robbin Webber on how to be an organized minister. He revealed the profound truth that one could take things that needed to be done and put on a three by five card in a card file for reference...

.............ummm.........I got up and left for an early lunch.

I sat with Robbin and Joe Tkach Sr. at three in the morning in a cafe talking and Joe Sr. reached over and slapped Robbin in the back of the head and reminded him that he needed to listen better...

It had to be a humiliating moment for him and reinforced my impression of JT as rather thuggish.

WWJS Who would Jesus slap?

Anonymous said... Good OLD Robin Webber.....The...

2008-05-21T09:25:00.000+12:00

Anonymous said...

Good OLD Robin Webber.....

The man is actually quite boring.

Now his dad is quite an entertaining character in a xenophobic kind of way! "I'm telling you...the chinks are taking over San Marino!" At least his dad would deign to sit down and talk to us AC undergraduates....and we loved him for it.

His mother told people in Pasadena for years that her son was going to be a major force in the church and that he would eventually be martyred for the 'truth'.

Now that's just creepy....your mother wishing your death....yuk.

Even though Webber wants better communication between the splinter cults, he is not a progressive person in almost all other areas.

He was JW Tkach Sr's little pet puppy for a number of years.