Comments on Ambassador Watch: Who'd have thunked it?

Has Tom learned to count higher than 10 yet?The Co...

2008-04-07T15:40:00.000+12:00

Has Tom learned to count higher than 10 yet?

The Count, Cookie Monster, and Screaming-for-Mercy-in-Hellmo would like to know.

Re: Michael Rood: He is just CoGish enough to make...

2008-04-07T07:48:00.000+12:00

Re: Michael Rood: He is just CoGish enough to make Pam Dewey's Field Guide.

tired skeptic said:[The Egyptian Book of the Dead]...

2008-04-07T07:31:00.000+12:00

tired skeptic said:

[The Egyptian Book of the Dead] "Oh, I don't know. It looks more like a collection of scripts for Stargate SG-1."

*rim shot*

"Rood Awakening"........Just what the world needs....

2008-04-06T14:44:00.000+12:00

"Rood Awakening"........
Just what the world needs...... another Nut.

The other day I was out during my lunch hour drivi...

2008-04-06T14:39:00.000+12:00

The other day I was out during my lunch hour driving to a restaurant to get some food. I had the radio on and did a bit of channel surfing when the station I was listening to went to its five minute block of commercial messages.

I came across a distictively coggish religious program, but could not recognize the person speaking. Since it was near the bottom of the hour, I kept on listening to find out who this guy was. Turns out to be a Michael J. Rood, who calls his program A Rood Awakening (I kid you not). He has a website at:
http://www.michaelroodministries.com/index.htm

This guy has something for everyone. Focuses on the Jewish roots of the church. Dresses like Elijah (or Melchizedek). Teaches that the modern calendar, and even the Jewish calendar is all screwed up. Didn't look at that too close, but combines the agricultural and astronomical features of life of earth and heavens to get a "correct" calendar. (Check this out Dennis - his critics claim it has astrological aspects).

Prophecy is big with him, and you can read about "The Jonah Code" - probably not very similar to The DaVinci Code, but I could be wrong.

This guy is on TV too, so check out the TV listings for the program in your area! For those interested, you can start your Torah training right from the web page.

The more things change...

KMS

Richard and all:I do not believe that HWA had any ...

2008-04-06T14:22:00.000+12:00

Richard and all:

I do not believe that HWA had any contact with Crowdy. The Black oriented Church of God and Saints in Christ is a very interesting group, and get this, they believe that THEY are the lost 10 tribes too! (LOL!)

There is another primarily black group that is similar to the WCG called the "House of God" established by a R.A. Johnson in 1918. Again I doubt any connections to Armstrong.

A group called the "True Jesus Church" was founded in China in 1917, that claims about 1.5 million adherents around the world, including the USA, is also remarkably similar to Armstrongism.

The CoG 7th day was the primary source of 95% of HWAs doctrinal ideas. Even at HWAs first contact there were scattered folks in the COG7th Day movement who were keeping the Holy Days (John Kiez for instance) and also other ideas.

GG Ruppert can be argued to be a major influence on HWAs thinking. Although he died in 1922, it has been stated that many of his magazines, "Remnant of Israel" were in possesion of HWA, even up to the time of his death in 1986.

MORE: http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/rcogvscog7.html

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

I dont know if its the same one but if he is from ...

2008-04-06T14:19:00.000+12:00

I dont know if its the same one but if he is from finland its a possibility.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0312205260/ref=dp_image_text_0/105-0155096-3173261?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Has anybody seen a picture of Tom show up on the i...

2008-04-06T13:47:00.000+12:00

Has anybody seen a picture of Tom show up on the internet?

it now looks like he is issuing veiled threatsI su...

2008-04-06T13:21:00.000+12:00

it now looks like he is issuing veiled threats

I suspect that it is more like that some time some day, he expects that God will judge those of us who point out the truth that Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet. At that time, we will all regret ever being anything but biodolatry and later, necrolatry, because Herbert Armstrong will be a God as God is God and we will have to worship at his feet. Maybe even wash them.

But ever conservative and cautious, I am keeping my FBI contact information handy, just in case. Which reminds me, it's about time to check on the other case files I've opened with the FBI.

Just a precaution, mind you. I have faith in Divine Protection -- perhaps not dissimilar to Herbert Armstrong's faith which dictated that he keep a cadre of armed bodyguards with real guns [and, of course, I'm somewhat jealous, since I can't afford such prodigal expenditures].

Tom M---n wrote, "It should be evident to everyone...

2008-04-06T13:05:00.000+12:00

Tom M---n wrote, "It should be evident to everyone here, that the sole reason Dennis and Douglas, in particular, have descended to using the language of the gutter, is because I have uprooted all their ill-conceived opinions, and the pedestal upon which stood have collapsed. From time to time, I shall gather up the pieces of their broken pedestal and cast them to wind".

MY COMMENT - Oh, I get it now Tom. Your a goof ball comedian, and your yanking our chains! I guess we shouldn't take Tom seriously here on the AW website.

Reminds me of the Saturday Night Live Point Counterpoint routine with Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtin. To quote Dan Akroyd, "Tom, you ignorant slut".

Richard

Tom M---n wrote, "If you post a photo of your humb...

2008-04-06T12:56:00.000+12:00

Tom M---n wrote, "If you post a photo of your humble self, I will post one of me. But you, no doubt, are terrified of what I might deduce from your humble deportment!

MY COMMENT - Oh yes, I am just terrified! Why do the words "idiot" and "moron" come to my mind when I think of Tom Mahon?

Richard

Anonymous said... "No minister is a LEVITE. Christ...

2008-04-06T12:11:00.000+12:00

Anonymous said...
"No minister is a LEVITE. Christians are only a priesthood of Melchizidec who have no LEVITES. The LAW demands tithes to be given only to Levites WHO HAVE NO INHERITANCE. Christians do (Ephesians 1)." "

"correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Abraham tithe to Melchizidec?"

Yes, you are right. There are a number of other references to tithing in scripture. What is God saying to you? Are we to tithe or not tithe? I go with the former...to tithe.

Did Crowdy have a son by the name Garner Ted?

2008-04-06T12:07:00.000+12:00

Did Crowdy have a son by the name Garner Ted?

A correction - Herbert Armstrong would have been a...

2008-04-06T12:05:00.000+12:00

A correction - Herbert Armstrong would have been a contemporary of Crowdy's son who continued "the work" after his father died in 1906. Herbert and Loma were in Chicago in the mid 1920s I believe. Nothwithstanding, HWA could have come into contact with Crowdy's work.

Richard

Here is more on William Saunders Crowdy. The simil...

2008-04-06T11:58:00.000+12:00

Here is more on William Saunders Crowdy. The similarities between William Crowdy and Herbert Armstrong are re-markable - very interesting. Perhaps there is something to Tired Skeptic's suggestion.

Remember Loma's dream when the Armstrong's lived in Chicago in the early 1900s - about the same time William Crowdy was preaching in Chicago. I pulled this off the internet:

Adapted from Sabbath Roots: The African Connection
by Charles E. Bradford

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea (Isaiah 11:11 KJV).

The ministry of William Saunders Crowdy has been strangely neglected by church historians. This remarkable man was born a slave in 1847 in the state of Maryland and died in the year 1906. After going through a series of profound spiritual experiences, including receiving visions and dreams similar to the experiences of the great African prophets, Crowdy founded the Church of God and Saints of Christ in Lawrence, Kansas, in 1896.

On one occasion Crowdy was clearing a field for planting when he fell into a deep sleep. He dreamed he was in large room and saw a number of tables descending. They were of various sizes, but were all covered with filth, as in Isaiah’s vision (see Isa. 28:8). He interpreted this to represent the spiritual condition of the various denominations.
Then he saw another table descending that was completely clean. This table was labeled “Church of God and Saints of Christ.” The table grew to such proportions that the other tables were displaced. He took this to be a representation of the true church and decided that he was God’s agent to establish it.
During the same vision Crowdy was given a set of keys, rules and guidelines for the church, later to be known as the “Seven Keys.” The dream ended after a Bible was placed in his hands and he was commanded to eat it. He did and then awakened. This spectacular dream, Crowdy believed, prepared him for his ministry. He was totally committed from that day on to the spread of the message of Jesus the Messiah to the whole world, but particularly to his brethren according to the flesh.

By the time of his death the Church of God and Saints of Christ was established in the United States of America, the island of Jamaica, and South Africa. There were more than 200 churches and 37,000 members in the United States alone.

A man of great determination and stamina, Crowdy’s preaching mission took him to many parts of the United States. Large crowds of Blacks and Whites flocked to hear the ABlack Elijah.@ Convinced that he was God’s agent and that his church had a worldwide mission, Crowdy preached with power and baptized many converts.

Crowdy was arrested 23 times for preaching. Two Philadelphia pastors petitioned the mayor to order Crowdy out of town because he was preaching that Saturday was the Sabbath. When the mayor came to hear Crowdy preach, he was impressed with his sincerity and said the city needed more of his kind.

Early in his ministry Crowdy observed that the traditional church was confused about its relationship to Judaism. There was a continuity, in Crowdy’s thinking, between Judaism and Christianity. His movement sought to restore the authentic Hebrew roots of Christianity.

All African-American preachers have emphasized the Exodus and the emancipation of the Hebrews as the major salvation paradigm in the Old Testament and, indeed, in all of salvation history. But Crowdy is the first African-American to preach that the seventh-day Sabbath is particularly meaningful to Black people around the world. He saw his role as reaching out to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Black people, who are the true Israelites.

Crowdy preached the gospel of self-help and strength to overcome against odds. At the center of his message is a gospel that produces visible results in the uplifting and empowerment of people. One of the seven or eight departments of the church was the “M & W. D. A,” which Aservices the Tabernacle by fostering literary programs and finances for cultural development.

This visionary preacher forged a connection between Africans in the United States and Africans on the continent through his adherence to the ancient Bible Sabbath. This immediately identified him with African thinking and differentiated his movement from the European mission in Africa which was so committed to Sunday worship.

For Further Study
Elly M. Wynia, The Church of God and the Saints of Christ: The Rise of the Black Jews (New York: Garland Publishing Co., 1990)

Albert J. Raboteau, Canaan Land: A Religious History of African Americans (New York: Oxford University Press, 2001), 86-90.

END OF EXCERPT.

Richard

It final: Certified Nut Case

2008-04-06T11:53:00.000+12:00

It final: Certified Nut Case

(With much thanks to skeptic).......The "Imbecile"...

2008-04-06T11:50:00.000+12:00

(With much thanks to skeptic).......

The "Imbecile" said:

"The time will come when they will regret ever being here!"

I have always had my doubts about the sanity of this puffed up bag of wind, but it now looks like he is issuing veiled threats.

I am beginning to think his psychosis is much deeper and profound than I had imagined.

Wouldn't it be amazing if it could be verified tha...

2008-04-06T11:08:00.000+12:00

Wouldn't it be amazing if it could be verified that HWA knew of Crowdy's work

It would have been enough for Herbert Armstrong to know about G.G. Rupert's work, although it would be great for the hypocrisy meter to also have Crowdy's work at the heart of Herbert Armstrong's keeping the Feasts.

However, the truth is that some of the Churches of God of that era -- but not the Church of God, Seventh Day -- did keep the Feasts and Herbert Armstrong knew about them and may have even kept a Feast or two with them.

In any event, the claim that Herbert Armstrong -- as he said -- learned about the Feasts directly from Jesus Christ is certainly a blatant lie.

Concerning a bit more on Carl O'beirn:He establish...

2008-04-06T11:04:00.000+12:00

Concerning a bit more on Carl O'beirn:

He established the Church of God (Carl O'beirn) Cleveland. This, of course, is reminiscent of the episode of Barney Miller where Barney Miller asked a man in his jail who claimed to be the Devil where Hell was, and the man responded, "Cleveland".

Besides the nutty idea about palm fronds for temporary booths at the Feast, he also established his own, yet another, Holyday Calendar, much at odds with even the observations of Dr. Hoeh at the time.

Moreover, the Carl man insisted that all Old Testament Christians needed to keep the New Moon as the Sabbath / Holyday, based primarily upon the reading of I Samuel 20. This has also been the basis of several other obscure church of gods for their insistence that everyone needed to keep it in order to get into the Kingdom of God.

However, it is interesting that some have commented that this particular celebration was The Feast of Trumpets. If that is the case, and those proponents of keeping the New Moons knew it, it could be surmised that such may be suspect as being less than honest.

One wonders at their cognitive dissonance with Revelation 22:15 where the New Moon isn't mentioned although it would certainly be a prime place to put such a requirement.

Regarding William Saunders Crowdy:We know that HWA...

2008-04-06T10:56:00.000+12:00

Regarding William Saunders Crowdy:
We know that HWA plagiarized, virtually never giving credit to his sources, and instead attributing them to God. We also know that HWA did not seem to possess a basic sense of respect for gentiles of the black persuasion.

Wouldn't it be amazing if it could be verified that HWA knew of Crowdy's work, and that the reality was that the WCG had been spawned by African Americans?

Concerning armed guards with real guns guarding He...

2008-04-06T10:52:00.000+12:00

Concerning armed guards with real guns guarding Herbert Armstrong at the Feast of Tabernacles, does anyone know if any of the current crop of end time Apostles also having armed guards [in faith, mind you] with real guns guarding them? {We can think of at least a couple who actually might consider it!}

It should be noted that just as with Pavlov's dogs...

2008-04-06T10:48:00.000+12:00

It should be noted that just as with Pavlov's dogs, psychopaths once conditioned to someone pressing their hot buttons will react even when no one is pushing them any longer.

Sometimes, just sometimes [well, with the church o...

2008-04-06T10:42:00.000+12:00

Sometimes, just sometimes [well, with the church of gods, it's pretty much all the time], people become so comfortable with what is so objectively nutty that they don't recognize the drivel for what it is and need an outside source to act as a mirror to reflect how bad the insanity has become. The following true story is just one example:

In 1961, a man who later became a minister to a Church of God -- not Armstrongist, but still keeping the Feasts -- and who also later became not just a minister, but one who established Sabbath keeping churches all over the United States during his lifetime, came in contact with the Radio Church of God.

He finally was allowed to come to services. After services he was asked what he thought of Herbert Armstrong.

His response was, "you should ask me what I think of Jesus Christ".

Whereupon, two deacons physically picked him up and threw him out of church!

The time will come when they will regret ever bein...

2008-04-06T10:37:00.000+12:00

The time will come when they will regret ever being here!

OK, OK: 2012 or April 19?

Dennis, if you are driven off the forum, be sure to insist on a first cabin limo, the type of which Herbert Armstrong used with his armed guards with real guns, coming to the Feast. Insist that no expense be spared! After all, you are worth it!

Now mind you, Gavin is not paying. You-know-who is paying. So live a little! Make sure you get to the stock of champagne and caviar [if that's your thing].

And have a pleasant ride.

Hope to see you soon!

If I were allowed to voice an opinion, I would ded...

2008-04-06T10:26:00.000+12:00

If I were allowed to voice an opinion, I would deduce this came from an Idiot

Lamont, we really respect you for following the rules here! Thank you! But you do know that options are available to you: The word Imbecile has not been explicitly forbidden. Also, the word "fool" is still open.

However, to insure that you not run afoul of the POWERS THAT BE, you may just consider saying "a pompous beast of burden". This has the advantage of subtly inferring a relationship with Balaam.

Another approach is more direct: You could simply say, "I hope when you return home to the kennel, your mother bites you".