Comments on Ambassador Watch: Tithe Abuse

Just watched Dave's, umm, broadcast. Tithing is a ...

2009-01-03T18:38:00.000+13:00

Just watched Dave's, umm, broadcast. Tithing is a sign of the true church.

Only 1TO mentioned, maybe 2T and 3T are a little overwhelming early in the game. The windows of heaven open? Cool! Tithing is a Hebrew word? I thought it was Middle English. Well, I'm not an Apostle.

Wed Dec 31, 10:25:00 PM NZDT I had a read, sounded...

2009-01-02T22:17:00.000+13:00

Wed Dec 31, 10:25:00 PM NZDT I had a read, sounded balanced but there seems to be mixed signals there. Next article was "the blessings of tithing" care to coment.

It's good to see an openess to variant ideas in the same group! You don't see that much in the COGs.

Geez, with the False Profit of the CGoM blathering...

2009-01-02T14:37:00.000+13:00

Geez, with the False Profit of the CGoM blathering all over the place here, this comments thread is beginning to resemble a copy of Connections.

Purple Hymnal said... You can also watch The Pagan...

2009-01-02T11:56:00.000+13:00

Purple Hymnal said...

You can also watch The Pagan Christ (the documentary of the book) online.

Purple Haze,

Thanks for pointing out yet again that the Catholics and Protestants worship a false Christ, a pagan Christ. They do not worship the true Christ of the Bible. They do not observe His weekly Sabbaths or annual festivals. Instead, they observe pagan-based customs like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Sunday church services, etc.

But then, Herbert Armstrong knew and taught all that.

Now, how is it that you claim to have gone to the WCG in the past, and yet you do not seem to have understood anything that was taught or its significance? Did you not "get it"? Are you still lost in a fog?

Or, did you mean to say that you attended the WCG under the reign of Joseph Tkach, who no longer taught the truth after HWA's death? If so, go back and learn the facts. Then, say goodbye to the purple haze.

Pagan Origin of Catholic Teachings

Anon said There is a useful ...

2009-01-01T07:43:00.000+13:00

Anon said There is a useful approach to 'tithing' promoted by CGOM in New Horizons magazine. Access it at

http://www.cgom.org/Publications/Articles/ShouldAChristianTithe.pdf

Wed Dec 31, 10:25:00 PM NZDT I had a read, sounded balanced but there seems to be mixed signals there. Next article was "the blessings of tithing" care to coment

"Thanksgiving as a Safe Pagan Holiday"I remember m...

2009-01-01T07:02:00.000+13:00

"Thanksgiving as a Safe Pagan Holiday"

I remember my surprise at the looks I got from English WCGers for celebrating mother's day.

If anything would seem to be scriptural it'd have to be honoring your mother right?

I was told in England it had some druid origin of some sort. I pictured ancient people traversing in the light of the moon in white robes to stone megaliths for the latest in Hallmark Cards.

Or perhaps it was something obscure and dangerous like Morris dancers, which always reminded me of what people do when they suddenly find out there are mice around their feet.

So they had different rules. Different truth revealed for the first time in 1900 years. But it was different from my truth. And I looked the fool for not measuring up to "God's standard'.

Some places on this globe even tithed on the net income AFTER TAXATION.

Which seemed fair to me, its not like what the government stole was ever "YOURS" to begin with.

There is a useful approach to 'tithing' promoted b...

2009-01-01T06:59:00.000+13:00

There is a useful approach to 'tithing' promoted by CGOM in New Horus Suns magazine. Access it at

MyGodDon'tNeedMoneyNoHow.con.doh.no.calm

Maybe I'll get it right this time!Tithe article fr...

2009-01-01T06:35:00.000+13:00

Maybe I'll get it right this time!

Tithe article from CGOM:

http://www.cgom.org/Publications/Articles/ShouldAChristianTithe.pdf

There is a useful approach to 'tithing' promoted b...

2008-12-31T22:25:00.000+13:00

There is a useful approach to 'tithing' promoted by CGOM in New Horizons magazine. Access it at

http://www.cgom.org/Publications/Articles/ShouldAChristianTithe.pdf

Mel - It reminded me of something from a 50s scien...

2008-12-31T22:07:00.000+13:00

Mel -

It reminded me of something from a 50s science fiction movie, or Star Trek original series.

But speaking of parasites, while the leech is a bloodsucker, I have a gut feeling it's a tapeworm.

Re: the Horn of Plenty image-I thought it seemed r...

2008-12-31T18:51:00.000+13:00

Re: the Horn of Plenty image-

I thought it seemed rather long, although it didn't remind me of a vacuum cleaner hose or a culvert.

It reminded me of a leech- one about to attach itself to the guy's leg.

Does the Horn of Plenty really have pagan origins, as someone mentioned?
Dang, and I thought Thanksgiving was the one safe "worldly" holiday.

I might as well just celebrate New Years! I watched a program tonight in which Snoopy, Woodstock(s), Peppermint Patty and friends engaged in such pagan debauchery as dancing and playing musical chairs during at a New Year's party.

Ha!
***********************
Here's wishing a very happy and healthy New Year to all!
***********************

That is neither a "horn of plenty" nor a "culvert"...

2008-12-31T15:28:00.000+13:00

That is neither a "horn of plenty" nor a "culvert" in the picture.

It is obviously a giant, flexible, vacuum cleaner hose. It is sucking away all that guy's wealth--including his garden vegetables--off to some far away cult headquarters.

TITHING to the WCG and/or one or more of its many splinter groups has always been a VERY RISKY thing to do.

Consider, for example, those who supported Joseph Tkach in the Worldwild Cult as he cleverly changed all the church's teachings to reject what the Bible says on so many issues. What a horrible thing to have done, to have financially helped such an apostate!

Consider also the people who spent good money to feed the bad politicians in the United Cult. These politicians helped Joseph Tkach to change most of the WCG's teachings, and then went off to start another church that agreed with most of the changes that Tkach made in the WCG, but so far has not yet endorsed all the changes that he made. What an inefficient waste of money it is to feed such politicians.

Consider, for another example, the thousands of fools who rushed in to support Gerald Flurry's cult, called the Philadelphia Cult. They thought they were holding fast to the truth when in fact they were falling for outrageous new lies. Now, the aforementioned fools are GUILTY of having supported a complete fraud that was built on deliberate lies. This burden of GUILT is even worse than the burden of sending away the money was.

What about those who supported the relatively small, unknown false prophets and kooks? What a shameful, embarrassing thing that will prove to be.

If there are now over 300 splinter goofs, or maybe even more than twice that number, one's chance of supporting the one true splinter group is reduced greatly.

When trying to support these characters with real money, "the odds don't ride with you." It is risky business that inevitably leads to great losses.

a new take on tithe,one ministers view!

2008-12-31T15:22:00.000+13:00

a new take on tithe,

one ministers view!

Anonymous said... Bamboozler, Look again. ...

2008-12-31T10:40:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...
Bamboozler,

Look again.

That is neither a "horny of plenty" nor a "culvert" in the picture.

It is obviously a giant, flexible, vacuum cleaner hose. It is sucking away all that guys wealth-- including his garden vegetables--off to some far away cult headquarters.

Could it be brethren? A revelation has been given to us by Brother Anon? We now know where the other sock goes!

Ross Perot warned us about a giant sucking noise! And that crazy aunt in the basement.....just how did he know about her?

Here is a current article that shows the lack of r...

2008-12-31T07:51:00.000+13:00

Here is a current article that shows the lack of religious tolerance here in the United States.

This kind of pressure is not just in the military. It pervades our society, including Biblical Scholarship...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95CN0T80&show_article=1

"TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - An atheist soldier suing over prayers at military formations claims a larger pattern of religious discrimination exists in the military, citing attempts to convert Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan and an evangelical bias in a suicide prevention manual.

The expanded lawsuit filed Monday by Spc. Dustin Chalker and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation in U.S. District Court in Kansas City also claims the military doesn't take complaints of religious discrimination seriously enough."

It matters not one whit what the Bible says or doe...

2008-12-31T07:04:00.000+13:00

It matters not one whit what the Bible says or does not say about any topic. It is just as much human opinions about how it all is as any other book.

God did not write it. Gods don't need to write books. If they are real, they can conduct seminars, live and in person.

Stay home from church...save ten percent.

Paul Ray wrote:"...where do you draw the line? Wil...

2008-12-31T03:27:00.000+13:00

Paul Ray wrote:
"...where do you draw the line? Will you also demand evidence that leprechauns DON'T exist before you stop believing in them?"

Paul, you can't "prove" a negative. The burden of proof is always on the person making a particular claim to provide positive evidence, not on someone who denies the claim.

If I say "God exists" - then I have the responsibility to provide evidence or rationale for such a claim. Those who deny God's existence have no such burden - they simply do not believe because of lack of evidence.

Believers who arrogantly demand "Well, prove to me that God DOESN'T exist!" are incredibly foolish, and fail to realize that there simply isn't enough time to refute every single truth claim made by humans. It's up to those making the claims to offer legitimate evidence.

The same with leprechauns, by the way, or any other claim asserted as true.

This is one of my biggest complaints with Christian apologists these days - they make various claims, or rather promote those of past generations - and then fail to adequately make their case.

But then often the skeptics are equally incompetent at establishing their counter-claims (such as Silberman and Finkelstein, apparently, though to be fair, I have not read their work because my reading list is incredibly long enough as it is already).

I think this is at least one reason why there are so many "unbelievers" - because believers have failed miserably in proving the case for their beliefs in any cogent, intelligible way that provides actual evidence.

And even then, such evidence can be interpreted in different ways, much as the case is here for the historical reliabilty of the Old Testament.

Mr Bends said: "Michael, Michael, you are obviousl...

2008-12-31T01:19:00.000+13:00

Mr Bends said:

"Michael, Michael, you are obviously upset by that unsanctioned incident in Geneva all those years ago. HQ did not sanction the deacons to do that to you.

Have you examined yourself for the root of bitterness!"

I'm sorry. I know I am bitter. Actually I'm crisp. It burns me up to just think about it. But not to worry. I am here in Heaven and have spent centuries inquiring about Mr. C, but no one seems to have heard of him. :)

Oh, BTW...Jesus loves Finkelstein's book! He keeps telling God..."See, I told ya they'd figure the Exodus thing out."

On another note and concerning why tithing provokes so many responses.

Money is energy. The WCG and all churches demanded lots of your life energy in many ways and pooped out people talk more about it.

Well gotta go. Garner Ted and I are going to dinner after God's daily lecture series on "I Was Only Kidding When I said...." We met at the spa. I really like that guy.

Oh wait..he wants to say hi.

"And Greetings Friends around the world!"

Ok, ok...we gotta go. He's laughing. He says that a lot!

A note to the "Anonymous" who submitted an entire ...

2008-12-30T23:31:00.001+13:00

A note to the "Anonymous" who submitted an entire article from New Horizons as a comment. Please just send a link and a brief cover note.

"Harpur is an Episcoplian priest or the Canadian e...

2008-12-30T23:31:00.000+13:00

"Harpur is an Episcoplian priest or the Canadian equivalent anyway."

Anglican. Not Episcopalian. And I believe they have subsequently removed his license, because of his "heresy". (How very Christian. I say that without irony.)

You can also watch The Pagan Christ (the documentary of the book) online.

"It’s just too easy to merely read a book, conside...

2008-12-30T19:56:00.000+13:00

"It’s just too easy to merely read a book, consider yourself an expert on the topic, and then make bold and arrogant assertions without backing them up with legitimate evidence, which is apparently what Silberman and Finkelstein do."

At least read the books before you make this kind of judgement.

Much of the worst Biblical Scholarship in the world comes out of the United States. Scholars in the America refuse to follow the evidence; they are forced by cultural pressures to make history fit the Bible and that is how they write.

The reviews you read are from this crowd. They want to stop you from reading such books and from discussing them. They have apparently succeeded once again.

Many in Israel accept the well documented archeological evidence presented by Finkelstein and Silberman.

Anon 12:47 -You're right! He was distracted by try...

2008-12-30T19:00:00.000+13:00

Anon 12:47 -

You're right! He was distracted by trying to push his money into the smaller wallet his wife was goaded into buying him as a Feast present!

As for distributing wealth to the splinters, HWA has me well trained. I can live with not sending money to the WCG now, but I'm deathly afraid of sending any money to a splinter, because it may be the wrong one!

As an aside -- I remember discussing the cleanliness or otherwise of fried rice in a Chinese restaurant with a church member. He then started talking about tit-hees (tithes). When I first read a story on the wealth returned from tithing, I didn't know how the word was pronounced either.

Ah, tithing...It was herbie's favorite song.And IM...

2008-12-30T18:48:00.000+13:00

Ah, tithing...
It was herbie's favorite song.

And IMO, there's a better way to be.
Careful, there's a bad word in that second one!(hint: it starts with "cluster")

I have seen Finkelstein on a number of interviews ...

2008-12-30T17:16:00.000+13:00

I have seen Finkelstein on a number of interviews and I have not been impressed. It is my own opinion, but it seems that anything that might disprove the Bible he supports and anything that might support the Bible he calls a fake or tries to dismiss or ridicule it.
No help on the tithe changing from one tithe before the Pharisees to three after they came to power?? Can anyone give information on this...I ask again. Thanks

Bamboo_bends said... I noticed the horn of plenty ...

2008-12-30T12:47:00.000+13:00

Bamboo_bends said...

I noticed the horn of plenty in the illustration was more a galvinized culvert of plenty than an horn of plenty. The horn being a illusion created as the culvert goes off into the distance.

Bamboozler,

Look again.

That is neither a "horny of plenty" nor a "culvert" in the picture.

It is obviously a giant, flexible, vacuum cleaner hose. It is sucking away all that guys wealth-- including his garden vegetables--off to some far away cult headquarters.

It is impossible to tell exactly where the plunder all goes. Perhaps at the sucking end the take could be distributed to the 300 or more different splinters, slivers, and thorns in the butt.