Comments on Ambassador Watch: Joe's Deeply Sincere Apology Strategy

Biker Bob, I am truly glad that you have found ha...

2009-07-10T05:02:55.009+12:00

Biker Bob,

I am truly glad that you have found happiness, to the point that you wish to "run from a building screaming praises to Him". But, for those of us who do not believe in your imaginary friend, can I ask that you please spare us your condescending remarks?

We unbelievers are not necessarily less happy than you, nor do we have hard hearts that need to soften, nor have we necessarily "grown" less than you. I can tell you, in my case and those of many people I know, that growth was stifled as long as we were in the grips of religious beliefs. Once free from the bondage of religion, we have truly begun to grow and fulfill our human potential.

The Skeptic

Larry, you're obviously the world's expert...

2009-07-10T01:02:04.043+12:00

Larry, you're obviously the world's expert on wrong.

Purple Hymnal said... "Humans, and human thin...

2009-07-09T17:23:39.359+12:00

Purple Hymnal said...
"Humans, and human thinking can only take one so far."

Yep. BB has now officially come 100% full-circle.

Who wants to give the first eulogy?
------------------------------

I already did that. I've missed him ever since he stormed out of the PT forum. He hasn't changed anything except the side of the room he's talking from.

"Well, I base my worldview on evidence. The e...

2009-07-09T16:07:30.193+12:00

"Well, I base my worldview on evidence. The evidence I see shows that the history of WCG was an unmitigated disaster for everyone not named Herbert Armstrong or Joe Tkach. And maybe a few other beneficiaries."

Well, Skeptic, you would be wrong.

"Humans, and human thinking can only take one...

2009-07-09T11:26:32.389+12:00

"Humans, and human thinking can only take one so far."

Yep. BB has now officially come 100% full-circle.

Who wants to give the first eulogy?

Sorry Russell, been there, done that. I also cite...

2009-07-09T06:19:18.125+12:00

Sorry Russell, been there, done that. I also cited a tremendous amount of personal growth in my own agnostic postings. There is quite a body of them out there in cyberspace. But, that growth was miniscule as compared to the healing that's happened in my life over the past 24 months, to say nothing of increased understanding.

Humans, and human thinking can only take one so far. It's only when one invites one's maker to walk with one that one's personal situation goes into exponential growth. God made us in such a way that we can make physical, human progress. I don't deny that, and it's a good thing. But, truly, there is more to the picture. I never thought, as an agnostic, that I'd end up taking up the challenge and asking a Being whom I had considered for decades to be imaginary to come into my life. For a non-believer's heart to soften up to the point of willingness to do that is beyond rare. But, now, I am just so thankful that words are totally inadequate. We serve an awesome God, one who allows U-turns, seeks out his lost sheep, and welcomes prodigals! Sometimes, I just want to run from the building and scream praises to Him!

BB

Larry, You state your assumptions as if they are ...

2009-07-09T00:47:31.360+12:00

Larry,

You state your assumptions as if they are facts.

You should have said "I assume 'God can see further down the road than any of us'." You can't know this. There's no evidence of this. Yet you assert it. Oh yes, faith, of course. Evidence isn't needed.

Well, I base my worldview on evidence. The evidence I see shows that the history of WCG was an unmitigated disaster for everyone not named Herbert Armstrong or Joe Tkach. And maybe a few other beneficiaries.

Your baseless assertions about "God makes everything turn out for the best in the long term" come across, to a non believer, as ridiculous.

I've got an open mind. I've changed from believer to non-believer; I could change back again. All you have to do is offer me convincing evidence. Got any?

The Skeptic

BB, that is a very ignorant comment, as is typical...

2009-07-08T13:41:14.615+12:00

BB, that is a very ignorant comment, as is typical. As again, I point to proof - which is my personal journey, as documented on ISA and now HMA. I have done a great deal of healing and personal growth, and I DID IT WITHOUT GOD. I was an atheist, is an atheist, and though I cannot see the future, I do not see myself ever becoming a Christian. Ever ever.

In fact, BB, I find your comment deeply offensive. Something which you, in your wonderful Christianness, care not one whit about. I am offended because I have offered years of evidence of my personal growth without God, and you completely ignored it in favor of spouting nonsense that is easily debunked, and I wonder if you will take the same road some others have and refuse to confront that head on.

YOU ARE WRONG.

Dennis, Junior's letter makes it sound like HE...

2009-07-08T07:40:53.662+12:00

Dennis, Junior's letter makes it sound like HE'S forgiving YOU.

.....I feel sick....

Larry, The atheists have not taken over this boar...

2009-07-08T06:22:07.424+12:00

Larry,

The atheists have not taken over this board. Does the phrase "death rattle" resonate with you? They just seem to have a need to get their personal solutions in front of the rest of us on a day to day basis. I say watch and wait. Over a period of years and months, read the testimonies which they post as to how effective their non-belief is in terms of healing or personal progress. Believe me, over five to ten years, much becomes obvious, even to a formerly hard hearted person such as myself!

To me, the main pitfall humans need to avoid is toxicity. If everyone lived by the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, and the Two Great Commandments of the Lord, we could all exist in a non-toxic state. The principles taught in these can be applied just as well in a secular philosophy as they can in a Christian setting, and will work. The only difference is in the spiritual condition of the individual. Believers, those of faith, exist in a saved condition. And, of course, our most profound hopes and prayers are that none of our fellow humans will be lost.

BB

Dennis, "the balm of forgiveness and love hea...

2009-07-08T03:47:40.384+12:00

Dennis,
"the balm of forgiveness and love heals and restores."

I think this is quite accurate.

Hi Dennis, Just a few words here. In my 'post-...

2009-07-08T03:40:50.438+12:00

Hi Dennis,
Just a few words here.
In my 'post-True Church life', I entangled my brain in various teachings that promised to deliver ultimate healing, and various other 'ultimate' this and that.
Ultimately, I realized that those teachings which claim to deliver the "complete" or "ultimate" healing are ultimately bogus.
Maybe they make some good points along the way, as many belief systems do, but in the end, they are just not the ticket to feel all better.
Ultimately, we all get hurt along the way, and travel on with our scars in various ways.
Rock on, my friend.
FWIW, I know people who used to travel a longer distance to go to church because they wanted to hear you, rather than their local minister, give a sermon.
But back to the hurt, I think there's a truthfulness of acknowledging it that's good, and the realization that "I ain't Superman" isn't a bad thing.
It's pretty cool to be just another human being.
~Mel

Please note that I forgave Joe and WCG for my own ...

2009-07-07T22:32:51.332+12:00

Please note that I forgave Joe and WCG for my own sake and keep processing my experience in a positive way for my own good.

NOTHING in Joe's response was any kind of apology or recognition of having done anything wrong or agonizingly disruptive to human hope, dreams and convictions, true or false.

He also made no statements on helping in anyway he could.

"Dear Dennis,

I can't tell you how moved and grateful I was to read your email. Your words were healing on so many levels, and I am especially thankful that we can again find footing for our long friendship and the mutual respect that we have always shared in our heart of hearts. We all offend in ways we don't even know, but the balm of forgiveness and love heals and restores. Thank you for your words and courage and the love that motivated them.

With warm respect,

Joe"

Game OVER. Now shake hands and we'll see you b...

2009-07-07T16:57:21.784+12:00

Game OVER. Now shake hands and we'll see you both at the next tournament on the circuit

And that speaks for itself, because I proved you w...

2009-07-07T16:43:25.746+12:00

And that speaks for itself, because I proved you wrong. If you won't admit it, it doesn't change facts. However, people with your religious bent are known to be fact-averse, and you just proved yourself to be no exception.

PROVED.

Pride goeth before a fall, and you have a long way to fall, apparently.

Believe it or not, Larry, you do serve a purpose. Every time I talk to you, I'm reminded of what I left, and very glad that I'm no longer involved in it. You are a very effective light for your God.

Too bad your God is not one of goodness.

Bye. And for pete's sake, find yourself a book on logic and read it. You obviously have no natural talent...

Russell, okaaayyy, the question.... Am I going to ...

2009-07-07T16:17:54.871+12:00

Russell, okaaayyy, the question....
Am I going to admit I was wrong? No.

And you STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE QUESTION. ...

2009-07-07T14:35:38.406+12:00

And you STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

What about it, Larry? No answer?

Sorry PH, I appreciate the compliment, but as I ha...

2009-07-07T11:11:09.518+12:00

Sorry PH, I appreciate the compliment, but as I have repeatedly told you, I am not ordained.

I am just here to serve as a counterweight for all the atheists who seem to have taken over this board. I do not believe in personal attacks, and as you have noticed, I do not respond in kind to those who attack me. My experience is that personal attacks generally prove the immaturity of those making them.

"Of course, and I missed it the first time, L...

2009-07-07T07:48:10.514+12:00

"Of course, and I missed it the first time, Larry went right for the ad hominem and didn't actually answer the question."

Ministry evades difficult questions that way. They always have, and apparently, they always will.

Does Junior know what you post here Larry? I notice you only tend to pop up on the threads that criticize him (and the other criminals still in charge of the organization) the most.

You keep denying that you're a member of the ministry (which I still refuse to believe), but I strongly suspect the ministry, if you are in fact, NOT a member of same, has "encouraged" you to come here and actively continue the emotional abuse and victim-blaming of ex-members that you have consistently displayed, since you first showed up here.

Keep it up, Larry, you're more instructive than you realize, as to how much the church really HAS NOT changed, in any way, shape or form, whatsoever.....Only the window dressing has been altered, at the heart, GCI is STILL a closed, high-demand religious group that utilizes oppressive thought-reform techniques. And you, Larry, are living proof of that, deny it as you may.

Of course, and I missed it the first time, Larry w...

2009-07-06T09:53:41.412+12:00

Of course, and I missed it the first time, Larry went right for the ad hominem and didn't actually answer the question.

What of it, Larry?

You're funny, Larry. Thanks for the laugh.

2009-07-06T09:27:36.609+12:00

You're funny, Larry. Thanks for the laugh.

Skeptic, One should reserve judgement. What someti...

2009-07-06T04:27:39.203+12:00

Skeptic, One should reserve judgement. What sometimes appears to be a disaster in the present turns out to be a great victory from the perspective of a future historian. God can see further down the road than any of us.

Russell, I guess I won't be on your Christmas list this year. Your post is a clear indication of who the grown-up is here. And yes, Gavin does maintain decorum.

PH,...Your belief or non-belief does not alter the truth one whit.

"I know this will be a stretch for you...but,...

2009-07-05T14:31:12.864+12:00

"I know this will be a stretch for you...but, how about letting God handle it? Seems like He is quite capable."

There is no god, Larry. Want to know where I learned that?

At the hands of the church.

Larry said, "how about letting God handle it...

2009-07-05T12:11:24.885+12:00

Larry said,

"how about letting God handle it? Seems like He is quite capable."

Quite right, Larry. God has done a terrific job handling the breakup and transmogrification of WCG. Isn't that obvious to all?

The Skeptic

Larry, BULL. I was told multiple times that if I ...

2009-07-05T10:09:51.861+12:00

Larry, BULL.

I was told multiple times that if I did not put something in the offering basket, I was threatening my eternal life, or at the very least my ability to survive the tribulation.

I'm sorry if I'm getting a little tweaked here, Gavin, but I am. Larry, GROW THE HELL UP. I have a few other words for you as well, but I may have to put them on my own blog, because Gavin has much more of a sense of decorum in these things than I do. But I will say this much - anyone who agrees with you has a screw loose, and you most definitely have an entire bin full falling out. I wish you'd just go crawl back under your rock, because you sure as whatever aren't contributing anything useful here.

Now I have told you that yes, someone was indeed threatened if they did not give money. What are you going to do about it now? Continue your metal gymnastics that amount to twitching your scrawny, underdeveloped arms and yelling "one hundred, one hundred one", or are you actually going to freaking admit you're wrong for a change?