Comments on Ambassador Watch: Lilith

Jared said:. . . and those whom everybody believes...

2008-01-16T00:49:00.000+13:00

Jared said:

. . . and those whom everybody believes to be Israelites, and who identify themselves as Israelites, are not Israelites at all. Thus, the Jews get robbed of their own identity so that a group of Gentile poseurs can dress up as Jews.

Yes, and isn't this what us silly goims did every F.O.T.? The only thing that was missing were our yarmulkes. Our Armstrongology had us trying to out Jewish the Jews (who must have had a hearty laugh on us).

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifi...

2008-01-15T12:15:00.000+13:00

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans.

That's correct. What we usually call "races" are not "subspecies." The genetic differences between "races" are not that distinct as to qualify as separate subspecies.

While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another.

That's because there is no clear and consistent definition of "race." Does it mean skin color? Type and color of hair? Shape of eyebrows, nose, and lips? Language? Religion? Ethnic origin? All of the above? Some of the above?

There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity. People who have lived in the same geographic region for many generations may have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other.

Sorry, but that's double-talk. There are no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity, except there is a genetic basis: people who live in the same geographic region for many generations usually have a few alleles in common. What's more, people from the same ethnicity are almost always genealogically descended from the same ancestors, and are therefore genetically related to each other. Common male-descent is detectable through y-DNA testing. If there were no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity, then it should be impossible to prove common male-line ancestry through y-DNA tests. Indeed, paternity tests would be impossible in cases of disputed paternity of a child.

Indeed, it has been proven that there is more genetic variation within races than exists between them.

Ah, this is one of those cases of a scientific study that proves that water is wet. A "race" necessarily encompasses a huge number of people, and within a large population there will inevitably be an extremely wide degree of genetic variation. But a race is also a distinctive group, sharing a few common traits, and since it is only a few traits that the members of a race share in common, there would naturally be much less genetic variation between races than within races. So it isn't saying anything that we didn't already know to state "there is more genetic variation within races than exists between them." The person who wrote that statement is playing games with statistics.

Do DNA tests throw in doubt British-Israelism? Certainly. Just looking at y-DNA, we find that the results coming back do not match what we should expect if the Anglo-Saxons are descended in the male-line from ancient Israelites.

Let me cite an example from my own genealogical research. My wife and I recently learned that her mother is descended from the Hoyt family, who originated in Somersetshire, England. But here's the weird thing: our Hoyts have a y-DNA signature that is quite rare in Englishmen, but is more common among Muslims, Jews, North Africans, Maltese, Iberians, southern Italians, and Lebanese. What is the explanation for this anomaly? Who knows? Perhaps our Hoyts are male-line descendants of a Jew or Muslim who converted to Christianity in the Middle Ages. Perhaps the male-line ancestry of our Hoyts traces back in ancient times to a Punic or Canaanite ancestor whose descendants somehow made their way to Cornwall. Perhaps one of our ancestral Mrs. Hoyts cuckolded her husband and committed adultery with a Moorish servant. Whatever the explanation, the point is that most Englishmen do not have our Hoyt y-DNA signature, but if you want to find a man in England with that signature, your best bet is to find a Jewish man or an Arab.

But if British-Israelism were true, these DNA differences shouldn't be expected at all. Our Hoyt y-DNA should be very common in England if the Anglo-Saxons were male-line descendants of Jacob. Either that or, contrary to all expectations, most Jews today are not male-line descendants of Jacob. Many British-Israelists or "Christian Identity" adherents resort to that belief. Thus, British-Israelism in that case resolves itself into a baseless and ridiculous claim that a bunch of people that look, walk, smell, and quack like Gentiles are in fact Israelites, and those whom everybody believes to be Israelites, and who identify themselves as Israelites, are not Israelites at all. Thus, the Jews get robbed of their own identity so that a group of Gentile poseurs can dress up as Jews.

Take your pick: based on what we're finding out from y-DNA, either the Jews are genetic impostors or British Israelism is a heap of steaming excrement. In light of the fact that British Israelism has no basis in history and is contradicted by the teachings of the Bible, it's clear which option we should pick.

There were never twelve tribes descended from twel...

2008-01-15T11:24:00.000+13:00

There were never twelve tribes descended from twelve brothers; there were only three sisters. The nation of Judah and the Northern Kingdom sprang from three sisters. . . .

And that is the kind of faulty conclusions that come from confusing literary genres. Ezekiel's prophecy is, well, a prophecy, delivered in poetic language. It wasn't delivered as a historical discourse, nor even a purportedly historical discourse, and it certainly wasn't an ethnographic report. Ezekiel is upbraiding Israel for their sins, not for their DNA.

Hi CorkyRe your comments:-This is something that c...

2008-01-15T07:37:00.000+13:00

Hi Corky

Re your comments:-

This is something that could go on indefinitely. You obviously have written off the Bible, and so can’t be bothered to check what it says, or are very careless with it. Eg in your very first comment you say:-

“It speaks of the "circle of the earth" in only one ambiguous passage which also says the sky is a tent.”

No it doesn’t say the sky IS a tent. It says that God stretches out the heavens AS a curtain, and spreads them out AS a tent to dwell in.

God is saying that the sky, the atmosphere, is LIKE a tent – which is exactly what it is. The surface of the earth has the protection of the atmosphere from things that are injurious to life from space - from radiation, from meteors. Thousands of meteors are hitting the atmosphere daily, and only an occasional stray large one makes it through to the surface.

Just like a tent gives protection to the occupants from bad weather overnight, so the atmosphere gives protection to the surface of the earth, and the life dwelling on that surface.

I could carry on point by point, but I do have a life outside of AW, so don’t wish to devote too much time to this, especially as the next item has been posted, and this thread is coming to a natural end.

Corky said regarding evolution: "Not falsified but...

2008-01-15T06:37:00.000+13:00

Corky said regarding evolution: "Not falsified but verified thousands of times in many different ways."

Corky - I know you and I have gone over this a few times before but I will state it again based on your 'verified' statement:

There is absolutely zero proof of abiogenesis and absolutely zero proof that one species can or has evolved into another. Each experiment to try and prove either of them continues to support the idea that neither of them are possible. For schools and society to continue to jam this down our throats as "Fact" is as stupid as the Catholic church condemning Galileo. I personally hope the experiments continue as it may be the only way to eventually get past abiogenesis and evolution and start down the road of finding out what really did happen. Evolution is more philosphy than science.

In case you forgot, I think the genesis account may very well be "bunkem" and I fully support scientific research...I have just as hard a time with believing all the animals in the world were on the ark AND for over six months as I do with the ridiculous idea that a prehistoric bovine became a whale.

Questeruk said... The Bible doesn't claim the eart...

2008-01-15T04:38:00.000+13:00

Questeruk said...
The Bible doesn't claim the earth is flat - far from it. The bible talks of the ‘circle of the earth’

It speaks of the "circle of the earth" in only one ambiguous passage which also says the sky is a tent.

and that God ‘hangs the earth on nothing’.

It also says that the earth has pillars and foundations and the sky is a glass dome with windows in it.

So???? The Biblical account says God made this a token of an agreement that there would be no more worldwide flood. Nothing to do with God somehow constructing it at that point.

Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud

Sounds like a construct to me.

“Rain turned out to be evaporation and condensation rather than God did it.”

Is there some dispute on this? This is something that could be said about anything in nature.

That's right, it could, but the bible claims that God causes it.

“One hundred fifty years ago evolution became a viable scientific theory that has not been falsified to date.”

Not falsified OR verified.

Not falsified but verified thousands of times in many different ways.

Concrete, infallible proof is not a runner either way for evolution.

Nor for any science.

However understanding probability makes evolution as near impossible as you can get.

According to people who know nothing about the theory of evolution.

Blind chance is a terrible designer. But that’s another story.

Evolution is not "blind chance", yet another fallacy of those who know nothing of the theory of evolution.

“In the last couple of decades the plagues on Egypt and the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan by the Jews has been shown to never have happened.”

A big statement - and your evidence and source????

Archeology showing no evidence of an exodus or of a conquest by Jews and the decipherment of the Egyptian writings of the time.

“It has also been shown that humans have been on the planet for at least 150,000 years in their present form instead of the 6,000 years of the Bible. Proved to be true by anthropolgy, archeology and genetics.”

Once again, only a problem if you feel everything has to be pushed into a 6000 year time frame.

Because of the geneologies in the bible from Adam to Jesus, approximately 4,000 years. We know that from Jesus to today is approximately 2,008 years. Add 'em up.

(And how long have more ‘advanced’ things, such as writing or cities, been in existence?)

About 10,000 years and manmade tools for about 150,000 years.

The bible is bunkem.

Corky said... “In spite of all kinds of denials an...

2008-01-15T01:49:00.000+13:00

Corky said...
“In spite of all kinds of denials and apologetics in Christendom, it has all been debunked a long time ago, beginning with Gallileo.

The earth turned out to be spherical instead of flat like the Bible has it.”

The Bible doesn't claim the earth is flat - far from it. The bible talks of the ‘circle of the earth’ and that God ‘hangs the earth on nothing’.

“Rainbows turned out to be sunlight on water droplets instead of God did it.”

So???? The Biblical account says God made this a token of an agreement that there would be no more worldwide flood. Nothing to do with God somehow constructing it at that point.

“Rain turned out to be evaporation and condensation rather than God did it.”

Is there some dispute on this? This is something that could be said about anything in nature.

“The earth has turned out to be billions of years old instead of only six thousand.”

You should know the COG view on this – which is a view that has been held by some down the centuries by quite a number – years before HWA – no Biblical problem.

“Two hundred years ago the geologic column proved that the worldwide flood of Noah was a hoax.”

See previous comment

“One hundred fifty years ago evolution became a viable scientific theory that has not been falsified to date.”

Not falsified OR verified. Concrete, infallible proof is not a runner either way for evolution. However understanding probability makes evolution as near impossible as you can get. Blind chance is a terrible designer. But that’s another story.

“In the last couple of decades the plagues on Egypt and the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan by the Jews has been shown to never have happened.”

A big statement - and your evidence and source????

“It has also been shown that humans have been on the planet for at least 150,000 years in their present form instead of the 6,000 years of the Bible. Proved to be true by anthropolgy, archeology and genetics.”

Once again, only a problem if you feel everything has to be pushed into a 6000 year time frame. (And how long have more ‘advanced’ things, such as writing or cities, been in existence?)

Tom saith :If you intend to join the discussion an...

2008-01-15T01:14:00.000+13:00

Tom saith :

If you intend to join the discussion and make a sensible contribution, please answer question, if you can?

I answered your question with your own question. Which YOU have no answer for. So don't harp on me for getting your own religious tit caught in a wringer. You did that all by your "righteous" self.

As I said, unless you were an Armstrongite in the womb, you did exactly what you accuse others of here: you left your previous faith behind to take up your new faith of Armstrongology. Which means you are just as double-minded and unstable as those you accuse of being.

But unlike you, some of us have recognized the error of our ways and have left that stinking pile of dung behind that you are still mired in. And there-in is the source of your biggest problem, Tom. You believe your own religious sh!t, just as your false prophet Armstrong did.

byker bob said:>>>Counter to what Tom Mahon has st...

2008-01-14T22:39:00.000+13:00

byker bob said:

>>>Counter to what Tom Mahon has stated, you cannot actually "prove" British Israelism in the first place.<<<

What nonsense!

>>>There is not enough solid history regarding the Germanic tribes wandering around Central Europe way back when,<<<

The proof that the US and Britain have inherited the birthright blessing God promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is not predicated upon knowing whether Germanic tribes wonder through Central Europe or were drowned in the Caspian sea. The prophetic evidence and the time of its fulfilment is documented in the pages of the bible. From historical records, there may be some supporting evidence, but that evidence is not necessary to prove the case. If we had to rely on the historical records to validate all that we know, we would have to conclude that Jesus, Paul, Timothy, Mary, John the Baptist and even Judas never existed.

But then, there are some people insane enough to argue that they are fictional characters, because the historical record doesn't mention them.

Charlie said...>>>>One more thing Tom; Don't bothe...

2008-01-14T22:05:00.000+13:00

Charlie said...

>>>>One more thing Tom; Don't bother responding about what my punishment will be for being disrespectful to herbie or no longer keeping the damned holy days.<<<

OK, I won't. But what will your punishment be for keeping Xmas? Now that is a rhetorical question.

>>>I'll take whatever I have coming to me. I wouldn't want any part of any afterlife that had herbie and his brown-nosing, goose-stepping, sycophants anyway. That would be hell indeed.<<<

Will you really take what is coming to you? I doubt it.

In spite of all kinds of denials and apologetics i...

2008-01-14T17:12:00.000+13:00

In spite of all kinds of denials and apologetics in Christendom, it has all been debunked a long time ago, beginning with Gallileo.

The earth turned out to be spherical instead of flat like the Bible has it.

Rainbows turned out to be sunlight on water droplets instead of God did it.

Rain turned out to be evaporation and condensation rather than God did it.

The earth has turned out to be billions of years old instead of only six thousand.

Two hundred years ago the geologic column proved that the worldwide flood of Noah was a hoax.

One hundred fifty years ago evolution became a viable scientific theory that has not been falsified to date.

In the last couple of decades the plagues on Egypt and the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan by the Jews has been shown to never have happened.

It has also been shown that humans have been on the planet for at least 150,000 years in their present form instead of the 6,000 years of the Bible. Proved to be true by anthropolgy, archeology and genetics.

Wishful thinking aside, the Bible is bunkum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o&feature...

2008-01-14T13:56:00.000+13:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o&feature=related

Some of you might find the problem and reaction many Mormons are having with DNA debunking their core Book of Mormon history familiar. Well worth the 45 minute investment as you will hear denials common to COG types who will have to face similar issues, disproven in similar ways sooner or later.

One more thing Tom; Don't bother responding about ...

2008-01-14T13:32:00.000+13:00

One more thing Tom; Don't bother responding about what my punishment will be for being disrespectful to herbie or no longer keeping the damned holy days.

I'll take whatever I have coming to me. I wouldn't want any part of any afterlife that had herbie and his brown-nosing, goose-stepping, sycophants anyway. That would be hell indeed.

The unfortunate thing about all this is that 100, ...

2008-01-14T13:26:00.000+13:00

The unfortunate thing about all this is that 100, 200, 500 years from now, this discussion will still be going on with other generations.

There will be more Toms, Corkys, Charlies, Dennis', etc. Time will still be short then too of course.

I admit to growing weary of the same conversations over and over again regarding BI and would no longer post here but I feel a sense of kinship with each of you on this blog through shared experiences and usually enjoy the discussions. I don't think I have met any of you (Except Gary Scott. I was at SEP with him) but hope to meet some of you someday.

Corky responded to Tom Mahon: "Yep, and I thought that I never would say this to anyone but I hope you don't ever figure out how wrong you are. I feel that your life would be in danger if you only knew."...

..."Sometimes, I suppose, it really is better that certain ones continue to remain blissfully ignorant."

Corky, I have to agree with you there. I think it may drive some to a mental breakdown if they admitted to themselves what *MUST* be rattling around in the back of their heads. I am thinking of someone very close to me when I say that too.

To Tom: You keep repeating that people have repudiated what they once held to be true. Well, that is the thing about some mistakes Tom, you can correct yourself and get back on a healthy track away from armstrongism. You should remember that herbie 'proved' 200 some odd prophecies that proved to be false.

Along the vein of 'proving things':

I was having dinner at my sister's house 10 years ago or so and my old pastor was there and he had the gumption to remind me that he "made me prove things" in order to be baptized and how could I no longer be with the church. Well, he also reminded me just prior to approving my baptism that if you didn't agree with something the church was teaching or felt them to be in error, you were to pray to God to fix it and God would fix in in due time, you were not to leave the church. Well that was in the WCG...That minister left the WCG to go to United, then left that again to go to Hulme's sect. Naturally of course, they quoted good 'ol herbie to support their leaving and starting their own organizations...Amazing how many 'One True Churches' there are.

There is very little hope for the self-righteous. Tom will go to his grave thinking he's got the world by the short hairs.

Tired Skeptic said... "The one thing I don't do is...

2008-01-14T11:35:00.000+13:00

Tired Skeptic said...
"The one thing I don't do is forgive those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit."

MY COMMENT: And, just how do you go about knowing who has???? How does one "blaspheme" the Holy Spirit?

Then, tired skeptic said..."I would have asked the same question, but apparently Jesus knew."

MY COMMENT: Terrible conclusion for YOU not forgiving someone. Hey, pinch yourself, then read my lips. YOU are not God. Wow! Herbie's doctrines are alive and well.

Now this is truly valuable..........not! Sounds l...

2008-01-14T09:30:00.000+13:00

Now this is truly valuable..........not! Sounds like you had a bad day, Dennis, and you needed a fill in. Maybe you need to recant now that Bryce has his website up!

BTW, now that the poison, that would have burst th...

2008-01-14T09:29:00.000+13:00

BTW, now that the poison, that would have burst the breast, has ebbed away in empty hisses

Another lie.

Tom would not have responded at all if that were true and if he followed the example of Jesus Christ, who, after his resurrection, could have appeared to the Scribes and Pharisees and "proved" that he was the Messiah, did not do so but went quietly to his disciples to teach them, then Tom would have remained silent and gone forth to teach kindness and righteousness by a sterling example of visiting the fatherless and widows in their affliction, even as I have quietly done over the years.

But he must justify himself for his bruised ego in his arrogant rebellion, making himself as it shows in I Samuel 23:15, a warlock.

Really, Tom should read the whole Bible through just for the flow of it: He might get something out of it, even in his unconverted state.

Or maybe not, unless God, the Father, decides to call him at some point.

>>>..but I keep the Sabbath and the Holydays, make...

2008-01-14T09:06:00.000+13:00

>>>..but I keep the Sabbath and the Holydays, make a stab at keeping the Commandments and ask for forgiveness when I fall short.<<<

So did the Pharisees! Yet Jesus said, "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven."

Tom is wrong again. I ask for forgiveness. The Pharisees did not. One wonders if Tom does. Apparently not.

"unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven."

That would certainly pertain to Tom.

You may abuse me as much as you like, but I won't render to any man evil for evil.

Not only does Tom render evil for evil, he renders evil for good. Out of the abundance of his heart does he slander the godly and sins terribly. According to Revelation 22 no liar will enter into the Kingdom of God, and by making the statement he makes above, Tom has just excluded himself. Again, I hope he repents. Not much optimism for that, though, based on Tom's past history, or, more accurately, histrionics.

Now on the other hand, if none of you have noticed [and of course you are all smart enough to do so], you will note that at no time does Tom appeal to the mercy of God: His approach is that when someone transgresses his silly rules Tom just makes up, they are doomed for the Lake of Fire and there does not seem to be any latitude for the person to repent, change and be forgiven of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

MY COMMENT: And, just how do you go about knowing who has???? How does one "blaspheme" the Holy Spirit?

I would have asked the same question, but apparently Jesus knew.

BTW, now that the poison, that would have burst the breast, has ebbed away in empty hisses, would you like to string together a coherent response to the points I raised in my original post to Corky?

Before addressing this, it seems apparent that Tom does not live by every Word of God, but worse, does not seem to even read the whole Bible through. It is said that the Devil can quote Scripture [he did to Christ]. Tom isn't even as good as his master.

Now then, the answer: Matthew 11:16-17.

That would be the appropriate response to a games playing psychopath.

Tired Skeptic said...TOM>>>I suppose I will have t...

2008-01-14T08:26:00.000+13:00

Tired Skeptic said...

TOM>>>I suppose I will have to coin a term, and categorise TS as a Tkachite.<<<

TS>>>I don't know who this "TS" character is,<<<

Will someone please tell TS who TS is.

>>>..but I keep the Sabbath and the Holydays, make a stab at keeping the Commandments and ask for forgiveness when I fall short.<<<

So did the Pharisees! Yet Jesus said, "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven." Your silly attack on HWA has excluded you from God's kingdom!

TS>>>Again, Tom has proved himself a liar, making up fantasy as he goes along -- an utter blathering fool full of uninformed opinions -- as are all the other Armstrongists full of themselves, full of arrogance, full of error, unwilling to admit the truth, but most of all, unable to repent, stuck in their own cesspool of sin from which they refuse to repent.<<<

You may abuse me as much as you like, but I won't render to any man evil for evil.

BTW, now that the poison, that would have burst the breast, has ebbed away in empty hisses, would you like to string together a coherent response to the points I raised in my original post to Corky? Or would you prefer to post some more sentimental platitudes?

Regarding the Lemba:"A team of geneticists has fou...

2008-01-14T08:12:00.000+13:00

Regarding the Lemba:

"A team of geneticists has found that many Lemba men carry in their male chromosome a set of DNA sequences that is distinctive of the cohanim, the Jewish priests believed to be the descendants of Aaron. The priestly genetic signature is particularly common among Lemba men who belong to the senior of their 12 groups, known as the Buba clan... He(David B. Goldstein) finds that 45 percent of Ashkenazi priests and 56 percent of Sephardic priests have the cohen genetic signature, while in Jewish populations in general the frequency is 3 to 5 percent."

The prevalent theories among Armstrongites are that the Levites are represented by the modern Welsh people, even though the Welsh histories indicate them to be descended from Gomer,the son of Japheth. Another Armstrongite theory is that many of the men in their ministry are in fact levites or Aaronites. Rod Meredith, of course, was cited as a prime example because not only was he a minister but he was also of Welsh extraction.

Isn't it kind of embarrassing to the Armstrongite "Priesthood" when some blacks in Africa can demonstrate a nearly unchallengable connection to Aaron and the Armstrongite ministry hs not done so?

If an obscure African tribe with a remote connection with the Jews can be identified as having a connection with the Jewish Priesthood, why can we not use the same methodologies to find such a connection with the "true" house of Levi, the Welsh.

Don Ward and John Robinson, by claiming that the Jews were actually Gentiles descended from Ashkenaz, effectively protected British-Israelism from any genetic analysis. Maybe this will be the route of escape for today's Armstrongites.

Tom wrote: "If people want to prove to me that HWA was guilty of incest or thief, then, they must provide the evidence, not ask me to go and find it!"

Just to keep this in perspective, HWA's status as a heretic does not pivot on assertions such as this. As HWA would say: "You need to get to the trunk of the tree." HWA believed and taught bizarre ideas about the nature of God. But his greatest error was to teach that man would become "God as God is God". This cannot be supported from the Bible. Who cares if he committed incest. Lay an axe to the trunk and all the branches will fall.

-- Neo

>>>Just curious if you grew up in WCG or came from...

2008-01-14T07:51:00.000+13:00

>>>Just curious if you grew up in WCG or came from another tradition of your family origins?<<<

If you had a name, I would answer your question.

""Indeed, it has been proven that there is more ge...

2008-01-14T07:49:00.000+13:00

""Indeed, it has been proven that there is more genetic variation within races than exists between them."

THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF ALL OF THIS.

You can't not argue that Jews and Israelites are separate and unique genetically and therefore could not be in Europe and the USA in large numbers.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT AND BE HONEST.

And you did try to do that...

"Anyone supporting Armstrongism are in the midst o...

2008-01-14T07:46:00.000+13:00

"Anyone supporting Armstrongism are in the midst of liars and thieves, deluded in their abject fantasies become habit."

the corollary...

Anyone supporting Orthodoxy is in the midst of liars and thieves !!!

Only Orthodoxy cares about this issue. No one else cares. Why bother with such foolishness?

To believe the BI theory one must also believe tha...

2008-01-14T07:35:00.000+13:00

To believe the BI theory one must also believe that semitic people can change into aryan people. Then they must ignore archeology and history.

Of course, that doesn't even account for how the Assyrians changed from semitic people into aryan people and why Germany and Assyria are not in the same geographical location.

the modern Assyrian people, still in northern Mesopotamia, continue to speak Neo-Aramaic dialects that are no kin to German.

The Assyrians are an ethnic group whose origins lie in what is today Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria, but many of whom have migrated to the Caucasus, North America and Western Europe during the past century. Hundreds of thousands more live in Assyrian diaspora and Iraqi refugee communities in Europe, the former Soviet Union, the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon.

As a result of persecution in the wake of the First World War, there is now a significant Assyrian diaspora.

Assyrians still exist but they are not Germans and they are still a semitic people.

I'm a bit surprised to see my exchange with the GT...

2008-01-14T07:04:00.000+13:00

I'm a bit surprised to see my exchange with the GTA organization from 2002 surface here. Back then, I was using the pen name "Bob E" because the Painful Truth originator had styled the layout of the site as a type of Armstrongaholics Anonymous thing. I wrote a couple dozen articles for the site, and the exchange excerpted above represented some of my more brazen activity. Shortly after that "interview" was posted, I noticed that a number of other "Bob E"s began surfacing on some of these WCG recovery sites, so I began using the somewhat more unique moniker "Byker Bob".

My original intention with that "interview" was to confront GTA. My first email in that series of exchanges was addressed to GTA. However, I learned that GTA had delegated all of his correspondence duties to Chris Cummings. I found Chris to be likeable, personable, and patient, but also pretty much immovable from his doctrinal position regarding British Israelism. I had a lot more time on my hands when I did that article, and when all was said and done, considered it to be a fairly good representation of a tyical ACOG reaction to the new emerging dna evidence against British Israelism.

Counter to what Tom Mahon has stated, you cannot actually "prove" British Israelism in the first place. There is not enough solid history regarding the Germanic tribes wandering around Central Europe way back when, so the theorists (HWA and his source, Judah's Sceptre) indulge in much speculation, and jumps in logic.
Nevertheless, most of the ACOG members feel that by reading HWA's speculation, they have "proved" the identities of modern US and BC. It is preposterous to believe that one totally distinct tribe emerges just by virtue of leaving its homelands (and the pilgrims came in from all of the European, and Scandinavian countries, with huge numbers of Africans mixed in as slaves) and colonizing a newly discovered territory already inhabited by indiginous tribes.

In Armtrongese, the Indians become Canaanites, and the Germans become Assyrians, also with no historical or genetic support. HWA's theories are on an intellectual par with the myths of Lilith, or the lost continent of Atlantis.

The danger of the British Israel approach to interpreting prophecy is that people are basing their lives, plans, families, and futures on little more than religious fiction. How sincere can a Christian be if his "calling" resulted from having a televangelist scare the "crap" out of him with prophecy? Self-centered "save your ass" callings do not cause one to focus on Jesus Christ, or to practice Christ-like behavior towards one's fellow man. That is why we see the ACOGs turning their backs on victims of natural disasters, building multi- million dollar complexes when they believe that the end is right around the corner, and enrichening their pastor generals and evangelists on the backs of their widows and working poor.

Bad tree, rotten fruit. We thought we proved it all, but on deeper scrutiny, it all falls apart.

BB