Comments on Ambassador Watch: Predictions for 2008

Tom Mahon said, "[Stingerski] along with Dennis, P...

2008-01-06T23:07:00.000+13:00

Tom Mahon said, "[Stingerski] along with Dennis, Paul, Corky, Thomas Munson and a cabal of anonymous scoffers are in the vice of Satan and 'The gall of iniquity.'"

Wow! Strong language for a happy little blog out of New Zealand.

Tom, America's freedom to question anything and everything, including God and Holy Writ, was won by the blood of countless brave young American men for whom freedom meant even more than life itself. From what I have read about your church, none of its members shed his or her blood for the privilege of subjecting themselves to an ersatz Papal state where one man established all truth, and precious few dared to question his opinions.

When folks feel free to question anything and everything, including long-cherished traditions like virgin birth, they're making good use of intelligence and freedom.

Truth is that Isaiah really did say nothing about a virgin birth, Matthew really did quote a mistranslation, and Jesus really was named Joshua (Yehoshua) -- not Emmanuel.

There is no sense in believing the Bible unless one believes what the Bible really says.

Deliberately skewed passages and misapplied, mistranslated verses abound in translation, particularly in those parts of the Bible that were carefully altered and shifted around to drive a wedge between Jews and Christians in the early days of the movement. God didn't divide world religious opinion; men of wicked intent did, and we're still living with the results of their conniving.

Why should having the curiosity, initiative and courage to do honest research put someone into the vice of Satan or the gall of iniquity? God knows an alma (young woman) from a betula (virgin). Is God in the gall of iniquity for understanding Hebrew? What about Matthew, or his redactor, who slipped a misleading quote from the Jewish Septuagint into our Greek New Testaments?

If you're going to fight on God's side, you'd best make sure that you and God are agreed on betulas and almas, and also on whether or not Mary's firstborn was named Josh or Manny. Because if God really did interrupt the long lines of male Davidic royalty recorded in the gospels, in order to produce Jesus from his own line rather than David's, then there is no possibility that Jesus was or is Messiah.

Remember Thomas Jefferson: "I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." One cannot really take God's side without that kind of attitude.

Fight the good fight of faith, and dump the charming fairy tales. Can't you do that? Personally, I respect God enough to do that, and I do a lot of it. Thomas Paine is deemed a heretic by some because he saw clearly through the twisted use that men of dishonorable intent had made of the Hebrew Scriptures, thereby catastrophically altering the Greek writings that at some distant point in the past had had an honest story to tell. My hat's off to him; he was an honest, informed and courageous man.

2008-01-06T22:45:00.000+13:00

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The tribulation can't be in 2008...it's a Presiden...

2008-01-05T23:25:00.000+13:00

The tribulation can't be in 2008...it's a Presidential election year in the US.

The only tribulation we will have in 2008 is hot air and mudslinging.

Oh, I'm talking about the Presidential election, not to be confused with the hot air and mudslinging among the Armstrongite Churches.

Richard

Saint Tom Prophecieth: "Accordingly, my prophecy f...

2008-01-05T16:37:00.000+13:00

Saint Tom Prophecieth: "Accordingly, my prophecy for this year is that many of scoffers here will experience severe tribulations. And this is not a prediction that might fail!"

Tom Mahon must be the second witness, he publicly agrees with Ron Weinlands timing of the begining of the tribulation. According to them both it will begin this year. Tom goes so far as to proclaim that it won't be just great tribulation but rather "several severe" tribulations. Amazing prophesying from two false prophets/witnesses!!

He claims we are in the vice of Satan, his make believe boogeyman. Where is this vice? How come I have never seen it, even though I am supposed to be in it?

I am sure Tom Mahon will rebut that the blessings we have are counterfeit blessings from ...... (In the voice of the church lady)Saaataaaan!!!

Saint Tom Prophecieth: "Accordingly, my prophecy f...

2008-01-04T07:27:00.000+13:00

Saint Tom Prophecieth: "Accordingly, my prophecy for this year is that many of scoffers here will experience severe tribulations. And this is not a prediction that might fail!"

Tom, you will be unpleasantly surprised to be informed that it has been my experience as well as observation that it is the members of the COG's that experienceth tribulations. Most of us have been greatly blessed since leaving armstrongism.

Stingerski said:>>>If one cares to go back and rea...

2008-01-04T06:07:00.000+13:00

Stingerski said:

>>>If one cares to go back and read Isaiah 7, and dares to take off his or her religious filters first, anyone can easily see this chapter has absolutely nothing to do with Matthew's clumsy attempt to link this episode with the mother of Jesus.<<<

Initially I ignored most of the posts commenting on the validity or not of Mary's conception and birth of Jesus, because much of what has been stated demonstrate a profound ignorance of the Scriptures, and is tantamount to blasphemy.

However, after reading Stingerski's bold, but ignorant and absurd comment, I felt move to "Answer a fool according his folly, less he be wise in his own conceit."

Now whether Stingerski was ever a member of WCG, I don't know and don't really care. But what is evident from much of his misguided and inane comments, is that he along with Dennis, Paul, Corky, Thomas Munson and a cabal of anonymous scoffers are in the vice of Satan and "The gall of iniquity."

As a consequence, it would be an act of futility to post a coherent and logical rebuttal of his diabolical comments. But for the benefit of the lurkers here, who still have some sanity left, the following might suffice as a warning: "Now therefore be you not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth."

Accordingly, my prophecy for this year is that many of scoffers here will experience severe tribulations. And this is not a prediction that might fail!

Jared said:Asked and answered in a previous post. ...

2008-01-03T01:37:00.000+13:00

Jared said:

Asked and answered in a previous post. Christians believe in two virgin births -- one of a woman who lost her virginity, and another one much later on of a woman who did not.

Sorry, must have missed it. But I never got a logical answer to this dual virgin birth story on the other forum either. And your answer makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

If one cares to go back and read Isaiah 7, and dares to take off his or her religious filters first, anyone can easily see this chapter has absolutely nothing to do with Matthew's clumsy attempt to link this episode with the mother of Jesus.

As I said, the Jews have a hearty laugh at Christians who try to hijack their scriptures to prove their own religious conjecture, including Matthew's.

Charlie said:>>>I love all of my children and do t...

2008-01-02T17:32:00.000+13:00

Charlie said:

>>>I love all of my children and do think of them as gifts from God...However, it would be a foolish thing to have more children than I could adequately provide for. It takes a little simple math to figure out what my wife and I make now, our potential future income, and our age will comfortably allow us to provide. The magic number for us is four. Besides, my children are spread out pretty far. I have one in college, one in grade school, one in diapers, and one on the way.<<<

I understand. But you are walking by sight, not by faith.

Robert, it's simply not true that as of 12th May 2...

2008-01-02T16:11:00.000+13:00

Robert, it's simply not true that as of 12th May 2008, US citizens will have to "have an id card with a RFID chip if they want to use air transportation, use governmental buildings or open new bank accounts".

That is untrue.

At best, that's simply bad reporting, and at worst, being deceptive and promoting untruths.

I apologize if my criticism came across as unnecessarily harsh.
I actually share some of your concerns about the Real ID Act, but I think it hurts a person's credibility and case if they play fast and loose with the facts, whether it's saying what you did about the Real ID Act, endorsing the work of a swashbuckling "Indiana-Jones-wannabe" huckster who claims to have found the Ark of the Covenant(hmmm he neglected to reveal it's secret location before he died), or declaring that the tomb of Jesus was definitely discovered.

I'm just looking for good journalistic integrity in the reporters here on Gavin's blog. At least those in the "cabal", lol!

Happy New Year!

BambooEnd's said: "Norm's settlement seems very re...

2008-01-02T16:09:00.000+13:00

BambooEnd's said: "Norm's settlement seems very reasonable…"

Norm was forced into that settlement by the judge who reminded him there should have been four trustees … if they should proceed to trial. If Norm was innocent he should have stood on principle--as it was he agreed to repay less than half of what he truly owes to avoid prosecution. Norm made out like a bandit--I predict he will declare bancruptcy before he needs to begin repayment in 2010. Terry lost not only his home, but all of his money, including having to repay over $40,000 in loans to make payments Norm couldn't, and now lives on social security and a small pension--and Norm has succeeded in forcing him to leave Port Austin through eviction from the property.

"the rhetoric about Norm was a lot of pre-trial hype"

Because Norm settled, his supporters will never know how truly base he is. But when one settles, one is not innocent of what he was charged, and that was fraud.

St. Tom asketh: "How can you determine that your n...

2008-01-02T04:44:00.000+13:00

St. Tom asketh: "How can you determine that your next child will be your last? I thought children were the of gift, and the fruit of the womb his reward! Are you proposing to reject the gift of God?"

How can I determine that my next child will be my last? Tom, you don't *really* think the stork brings them or something, do you? Ever had the birds and bees talk with your Dad?

Seriously though Tom, I love all of my children and do think of them as gifts from God...However, it would be a foolish thing to have more children than I could adequately provide for. It takes a little simple math to figure out what my wife and I make now, our potential future income, and our age will comfortably allow us to provide. The magic number for us is four. Besides, my children are spread out pretty far. I have one in college, one in grade school, one in diapers, and one on the way.

dat's enuf!

Charlie said...>>>I predict that in 2008 I will wo...

2008-01-01T22:56:00.000+13:00

Charlie said...

>>>I predict that in 2008 I will work, pay taxes, and see the birth of my next (and last) child.<<<

How can you determine that your next child will be your last? I thought children were the of gift, and the fruit of the womb his reward! Are you proposing to reject the gift of God?

mel said...Tom>>>For a servant of God would have b...

2008-01-01T22:45:00.000+13:00

mel said...

Tom>>>For a servant of God would have been able to discern that UCG was started by pack of hirelings, who ran away and left the flock, the moment they saw the wolf pack, led by Tkach senior, attacking the flock.<<<

>>>Tom, based on the above, it seems that you believe that there was a possibility of keeping the WCG more like it used to be.<<<

Preserving WCG in its former "glory" was not the issue here. It was the duty of the ministry, who disagreed with the changes to say so, and to openly warn the brethren that what Tkach was introducing was spiritual poison.

If, for instance, your home was on fire, and you ran out of the house leaving the rest of your family asleep, without raising the alarm, wouldn't that be a betrayal your wife and children? And if they, by God's mercy, woke up and escape the fire, and found you outside in the street, and ask you: why didn't wake us? what would be your response? would it be, "I love you all so much, I left you all to be consumed by the flames."

Would they believe that you ever really loved them? Would they ever have the confidence to trust you again, when your previous actions were designed to kill them?

Well, the betrayal of God's children by a hireling ministry was even more grave than that. And I shudder to think of the consequences of their diabolical treachery. For it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God; for God is a consuming fire.

MelFrom the Department of Homeland Security:"What ...

2008-01-01T21:10:00.000+13:00

Mel

From the Department of Homeland Security:

"What is a REAL ID license needed for?

The REAL ID Act requires that a REAL ID driver’s license be used for “official purposes,” as defined by DHS. In the proposed rule, DHS is proposing to limit the official purposes of a REAL ID license to those listed by Congress in the law: accessing a Federal facility; boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft; and entering nuclear power plants. DHS may consider expanding these official purposes through future rulemakings to maximize the security benefits of REAL ID."

www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/laws/gc_1172767635686.shtm

>>>I believe the above is simply untrue. "BS", as ...

2008-01-01T21:00:00.000+13:00

>>>I believe the above is simply untrue. "BS", as they say.

Mel, i suspect you have not even studied the Real ID Act nor thought about its implications!

From www.realnightmare.org/about/2

But whether or not they obtain second class licenses, those who cannot get Real ID-compliant identity documents could in theory be left unable to fly on commercial aircraft, enter federal facilities such as courthouses or office buildings, or even possibly get a job legally.

Furthermore, the list of activities for which these IDs are required is sure to expand, if the current mindless trend of seeking security through identity papers is not reversed. In fact, the Real ID Act explicitly says that Real IDs shall be required not only for activities like boarding aircraft, but also for “any other purposes that the Secretary [of Homeland Security] shall determine.”

I'm almost as verbose as Becker.Much more so. It's...

2008-01-01T18:03:00.000+13:00

I'm almost as verbose as Becker.

Much more so. It's best not to explain rainbows to earthworms or to those with ADD.

>>>For a servant of God would have been able to di...

2008-01-01T17:02:00.000+13:00

>>>For a servant of God would have been able to discern that UCG was started by pack of hirelings, who ran away and left the flock, the moment they saw the wolf pack, led by Tkach senior, attacking the flock.<<<

Tom, based on the above, it seems that you believe that there was a possibility of keeping the WCG more like it used to be.
How could that be, given that Tkatch was the new dictator?
He'd just kick out anyone who got in the way of taking the church in the direction of his choosing.

we need more accountability ....Rev. Charles can t...

2008-01-01T16:45:00.000+13:00

we need more accountability ....

Rev. Charles can teach us

>>>On 12th May 2008 the Real ID Act comes into law...

2008-01-01T16:43:00.000+13:00

>>>On 12th May 2008 the Real ID Act comes into law in the US requiring citizens to have an id card with a RFID chip if they want to use air transportation, use governmental buildings or open new bank accounts.<<<

Robert, you and Chicken Little are two peas in a pod.

I believe the above is simply untrue. "BS", as they say.

Please, if you have credible evidence please back it up and show the exact legislation and exact wording in that legislation that states that people will need an ID with an RFDI chip "if they want to use air transportation, use governmental buildings or open new bank accounts."

And please, no hokey sites like others that you have recommended.

The WCG, like other destructive cults, gets people to thinking they have the secrets and answers that the rest of the world needs.
It's an alluring thing to believe that one's self is one of the rare holders and dispensers of such knowledge, not to mention that they are on a special mission from God.

You exhibit that trait, with your interpretations of the book of Revelation, as well as doing a "hook, line, and sinker" thing with "information" spouted by hucksters and assorted folks of dubious credibility.

Over the years, after leaving the WCG, I gradually came to think of myself as a regular person, instead of being part of a small elite group that has the secrets needed by mankind.
You can, too! It takes time.

Awwww...I can just hear you now..."BUT I'M SPECIAL AND HAVE SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE AND I'M ON A SPECIAL MISSION FROM GOD AND NEED TO SHARE IT ON GAVIN'S BLOG!"

Lots of copied and pasted "special knowledge"
Oi, vey.

For a servant of God would have been able to disce...

2008-01-01T16:41:00.000+13:00

For a servant of God would have been able to discern that UCG was started by pack of hirelings

Nonsense. They're all hirelings.

Summation of Current TopicGod won't be blessing th...

2008-01-01T16:38:00.000+13:00

Summation of Current Topic

God won't be blessing the CoGs in 2008.

My iron fisted grip on last place in my fantasy fo...

2008-01-01T16:30:00.000+13:00

My iron fisted grip on last place in my fantasy football league is thorough enough proof to me that I lack prophetic skills, so I'll offer up some "observations".

It's been clear for a number of years that the validity of an XCOG ministry depends heavily upon the ability to emulate the late Harmstrong. PCG has gone heavily into relics, such as the famous "prayer rock", while others content themselves with organizational structure and programs.

Now, with so many of the XCOG leaders having become widowers, the "Abishag Gambit" will come into play. The strongest position will be held by a leader that can combine a second marriage to a younger woman that was also a YaYa.

Great rejoicing will occur in the PCG camp when the most rare of HWA relics is acquired - the "Prosthesis", along with it's Hermes bag. It is not clear whether the Prosthesis will also be personally used in an effort to increase doctrinal rigidity, or whether short sessions handling the object will be sufficient.

Often, when a long time spouse passes, the surviving spouse also dies within a short period of time. It is entirely possible then that one of the XCOG leaders will soon leave the "world stage". Since SOP is to NOT have a successor in place for fear of oppotunistic wolves further splintering the splintered splinters, the XCOG with the deceased leader will become a prey for member vultures in all the other XCOGs.

While they may publicly lament the passing of their "brother", they'll also be pointing out the late man's failures - such as faliing to survive until Christ returns. With so many splinters, this could become quite a messy affair - think of the presidential debates we've been treated to here in the USA, or the "bean scene" from Blazing Saddles, but I repeat myself.

The RCG implodes within 2 years. There are two possible ways for this to happen. One is that Pack's plea for bags of money, right now, is seen as so offensive by the membership that they leave and go elsewhere.

The other is that the membership do respond, and send Pack their assets and equity. Well, duh!, if you take out a home equity loan to send Pack the equity, you still have to pay the bank back. Be stupid enough about it, and you don't have the monthly income to make the payments, especially after your spouse divorces you for doing this behind his/her back. But Dave has his retirement funded.

At least the Pack Rat is upfront about the whole thing. It's "send my the money because I said so", somewhat reminiscent of the late Gene Scott. Can anyone beller "Get on the phones!"? That's in contrast to the ploy used by Paula White, where she fund raises - er, preaches - for half an hour about firstfruits. The point is send God your first check of the new year - first day, first week, first month, doesn't really matter except that you should send it to Paula. (She's not XCOG, but disgusting nonetheless.)

UCG will commission a study group to rationalize their move to Texas. It will not be able to come up with a good reason. The PR man will release a statement that will confuse more than clarify, and the move will go forward.

Joe the Deuce believes he is invincibly unaccountable, until he comes home late one night and Tammi criticizes the logic of his thinking.

WCG officially adopts the rational for the old Seinfeld show, and becomes a "church about nothing". No community outreach, no evangelism, no paid pastors, but a lot of satisifaction over their blog. (And please, local churches, send in that 15% of your income for denominational dues).

Enough of this. I'm almost as verbose as Becker. Happy New Year to one and all!!

KMS

I noted some references to insanity in some of the...

2008-01-01T15:53:00.000+13:00

I noted some references to insanity in some of the earlier posts. I assure you that R. Weinland is anything but insane. He is a very shrewd religious business man, in the image of HWA.

As this all unfolds, we will be amazed at how Weinland spins this. It will be worthy of the best of Armstrongism. He was not educated at Bricket Wood and Big Sandy for no reason.

The UCG would not engage in the drama of date setting, like Weinland, but they will draft off of his work. They will spin up the proximity in time of the end of the age, dates unspecified. Then they will criticize Weinland for date setting. This will permit them to seize the high ground of reason and make them look as if they have a tempered view. But in principle, they are in the same bag with Weinland.

-- Neo

Questeruk said... “* Stingerski, Jim Butler, Ch...

2008-01-01T14:52:00.000+13:00

Questeruk said...

“* Stingerski, Jim Butler, Charlie, Questeruk, Robert, Bamboo Bends, Corky, VonHowitzer,& Mouse will all join together and start a radio morning drive show that will top the ratings of all others and will rival Howard Stern.”

I suggest our local ‘Oddfellows Hall’ would be a suitable location for the first planning meeting of our forthcoming radio show.

My first impression of the Radio Church of God was that eyeball from the Oddfellows Logo staring down at me as a 7 year old....creepy.... I for one have a face made for Radio and voice made for print.

I can't speak to the rest of my compatriots, but I am continually amazed at how many die-hard Sabbatarians read what we write each week.

I haven't quite figured out if they are just annoyed at free speech and free thinking, or if they're unconsciously seeking something they can't get from the more regulatory blogs, like what people REALLY think of those bloviating spokes-holes from further down the Armstrong income stream. I mean really, they're about as original as a Nigerian scam letter. Sometimes they don't even bother to change the boiler plate.

Someone sent me this from a friend
who's wife is in the UCG...

I picked up a recent "Good News" magazine, and I looked at the ad for literature on the back. I couldn't believe what I read.

If I had the balls to write that sort of stuff given the Church's past baggage, I would have been the star athlete on all of my high school sports teams.

The ad shows an artist's rendering of a multi-headed beast.

Here's some of the salient text:

"We're all interested in what the future holds. .... How will future events affect our families and our loved ones?

Human efforts at predicting the future are notoriously inaccurate.
Self-proclaimed seers and prophets have been proven wrong time and time again. But there is a sure way to know what the future holds. It's written in advance in the pages of the Bible!

....

We've prepared an exciting, eye-opening booklet -The Book of Revelation Unveiled- to help you understand what is going to take place in the days ahead.

.....

You can't afford to be without this priceless knowledge!"

Yadda yadda etc. etc.

Given that the patriarchal founder of their corporate church has a documented track record of being stunningly wrong on any and all prophecies he ever made, by the mathematical principle of establishing a proof by demonstrating the negative I really find it unfathomable that anyone can possibly believe this crap anymore. Beasts, crowns, kings? Blood to the level of horses' bridles. (I did the calculation, trust me, not realistic.)

If I wasn't loosely tied to this church by marriage, it would pass by with some embarrassed amusement. But this ad is seriously deranged.

Whom do they think they're appealing to?

The people who order the book aren't going to learn anything. They could probably quote the scriptures better than the people who wrote it.

I think their motive in putting out the book is to keep an income stream from all of the pensioners who now comprise UCG into thinking their church is "sticking to the trunk of the tree" and "thundering out the lost, true gospel" and revealing "new truth."

All master bait jobs that got people like me hooked in the first place. You two poor dum-dums were raised in it. I fell for it; and gave them money. Embarrassing.

Thanks for listening. I couldn't have written this to anyone else in my life without causing offense somewhere. I needed to vent.

Norm's settlement seems very reasonable. I though...

2008-01-01T14:32:00.000+13:00

Norm's settlement seems very reasonable. I thought the rhetoric about Norm was a lot of pre-trial hype.

But then again, I'm not a follower of Norm or any sabbatarian leader.

I still have a tough time imagining him being like Meredith or the Packatollah...but I'm sure he wouldn't have a heathen like me in his group either! He's not getting tithes from me! Tithing to Norm, just the sound of that phrase makes me laugh.