Comments on Ambassador Watch: What Meredith knows about Atheists

'Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, unive...

2008-04-04T08:18:00.000+13:00

'Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, universal love and the welfare of the species as a whole are concepts that simply do not make evolutionary sense’.

This was a quote from the well known atheist Richard Dawkins. I was contrasting what he said with the opossite idea submitted by the admitted atheist 'Weinland Watch'.

Two atheists - two opposite viewpoints on human nature. Neither would want to include religious faith in their thinking.

'...'Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, u...

2008-04-04T04:03:00.000+13:00

'...'Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, universal love and the welfare of the species as a whole are concepts that simply do not make evolutionary sense’...'

That's our human nature. Surely a religious faith that strives for universal love and the welfare (even eternal) of the species is something to praise and to strive for.

Blogger Neotherm said... "I believe atheists fa...

2008-04-03T10:51:00.000+13:00

Blogger Neotherm said...

"I believe atheists fall into two principal categories:

1) People to whom God has revealed himself and who have rejected God.

2 People to whom God has not yet revealed himself in a way that is necessary to build faith for salvation."

"I suspect that most atheists know, at their core, what category they fall into. "

I don't contribute to these discussions often, but I just have to respond to this one. Neotherm's assertions are presumptuous in the extreme. He assumes the very thing he cannot prove - that god exists - and then he presumes that atheists also accept this presumption!

I fall into the following category of atheist: those who finally started listening to that nagging voice in their head that said "c'mon, gimme a break, this "god" stuff can't possibly be true". So I decided to get over my fear of death, and to live without the comfort of fairy tales about god, and to live in reality.

I know a person can't "choose" to believe or disbelieve. It's all in how we're wired. So I understand how Neotherm is so sure he's right. He doesn't see that there is no evidence of the god he assumes. But I can tell you, once you acknowledge reality and live life without fantasy, it's a very heady experience. The wonders of the real world - the universe as it really is, life as it really is - far surpass any fairy tales dreamed up by stone-age man.

The Skeptic

"Because I do, because those things are hard-wired...

2008-04-02T22:03:00.000+13:00

"Because I do, because those things are hard-wired into the human brain for survival of the species.”

Weinland Watch or Richard Dawkins?

'Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, universal love and the welfare of the species as a whole are concepts that simply do not make evolutionary sense’.

"Egyptians did not have to invent a fantastic hist...

2008-04-02T15:50:00.000+13:00

"Egyptians did not have to invent a fantastic history for themselves."

But they invented a hell of a one for "modern" Christianity!

(With apologies to Jared Olar: I'm only making fun Jared, I know pagan roots discussions set your teeth on edge. :-)

Anonymous said... '...The incontrovertible histori...

2008-04-02T14:46:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...
'...The incontrovertible historical fact:

There is no incontrovertible historical evidence that Jesus ever even existed, much less rose from the dead. Deal with that!...'

Wow! Now - someone has to be wearing blinkers!!! II Corinthians 4:4.

And you consider 2Cor.4:4 as incontrovertible historical fact? History is history and the bible is the bible and never the twain shall meet.

“There is a time when the operation of the machine...

2008-04-02T07:39:00.000+13:00

“There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!”

-Mario Savio, student leader of the 1960’s free speech movement at the University of California Berkeley (December 3, 1964

TomPerhaps you could submit an article on a topic ...

2008-04-02T00:41:00.000+13:00

Tom

Perhaps you could submit an article on a topic of your choice for the public to consider?

'...The incontrovertible historical fact:There is ...

2008-04-01T21:31:00.000+13:00

'...The incontrovertible historical fact:

There is no incontrovertible historical evidence that Jesus ever even existed, much less rose from the dead. Deal with that!...'

Wow! Now - someone has to be wearing blinkers!!! II Corinthians 4:4.

Jared,I once had the Urantia Book, too. You surpri...

2008-04-01T18:05:00.000+13:00

Jared,

I once had the Urantia Book, too.
You surprised me by saying you used to read it!

Heck, I'd even bought the Concordex to it, which was like a concordance is to the Bible.

That was during my "new-agey" phase, and I eventually donated both during a 'garage-sale' fundraising effort for the new-agey church I was at my tail end of frequenting.

The sheer volume of it kind of made me think, "It's probably true.", at the time I was into it.

There were other people into it, just as there are groups who meet and study the hokey "A Course in Miracles" and it's study guides.

Interesting, your comparing it to Mormon teachings. I never thought about that before. I think it's a good analogy, since both teach inter-galactic cosmogony with the specific messages for inhabitants of our planet.

I imagine some Mormons thought the same after reading Book of Mormon as I did after reading the Urantia Book, which was, "There's so much here, the writer must be sincere"

In retrospect, I wish I had just thrown the book and it's concordex in the trash. I hate to think that someone might have fallen for it.

"To eat garlic" is an ancient Hebraic euphemism fo...

2008-04-01T16:43:00.000+13:00

"To eat garlic" is an ancient Hebraic euphemism for conjugal sexual relations..."

Well, I'm learning all the time.

I thought "con-jugal" had to do with the falsie salesman that BB recently mentioned.

Corky said: We know from history what happened the...

2008-04-01T16:33:00.000+13:00

Corky said: We know from history what happened there, the church turned from all things that smacked of Judaism. The gentiles stopped their mouths by kicking the Jews out of the churches.

The historical record is utterly silent about Gentiles kicking the Jews out of the Churches back in the days when the Epistle to Titus could have been written, and for a long, long, long time afterwards. Indeed, there hasn't been any era when Gentiles have refused to admit Jews into the Church, nor did the Church ever turn from all things that smacked of Judaism -- though the heretic Marcion and others like him sought to do that.

However, this took place long after the time of Paul, so there you have a fake letter, as if from Paul.

Well, we know that Jewish Conversos were viewed with great suspicion in anti-Semitic Spain during the 1300s and 1400s, but no serious scholar is going to entertain the proposal that the Epistle to Titus was written during the late Middle Ages.

The simple fact of the matter is that there's not a shred of evidence that the Epistle to Titus was written by anyone other than the person who the Epistle to Titus says wrote it. It's nothing more than arrant speculation that's taken on the aura of established fact, but it's just another emperor prancing around in his altogether.

Garlic can produce a prolix phenomenon.Jorgheinz

2008-04-01T16:30:00.000+13:00

Garlic can produce a prolix phenomenon.

Jorgheinz

Probably even most of our scholars here, although ...

2008-04-01T16:22:00.000+13:00

Probably even most of our scholars here, although they might be able to quote Irenaeus, Origen, or Eusebius, have never cracked the cover of Urantia.

The Urantia Book? Wow, it's been years since I've thought about The Urantia Book, and I'm quite amazed anybody else even know of its existence. There's a copy in our public library, and I used to read it back when I was in high school and college. Of course it's complete and utter male bovine excrement, and obviously the work of a very longwinded and unoriginal writer of fiction, but it has its fun bits. Actually, as I recall, it seems to present a cosmology quite a lot like Mormon cosmology, or that's the impression I got.

Is eating garlic not ok?"To eat garlic" is an anci...

2008-04-01T16:09:00.000+13:00

Is eating garlic not ok?

"To eat garlic" is an ancient Hebraic euphemism for conjugal sexual relations, so I would have to say yes, eating garlic is A-OK.

Egyptians did not have to invent a fantastic histo...

2008-04-01T16:07:00.000+13:00

Egyptians did not have to invent a fantastic history for themselves.

And yet they did anyway . . .

For all the accomplishments and intellectual and cultural contributions of the ancient Egyptians, they're not even one the same plane of existence and not fit to be compared to the accomplishments and intellectual and cultural contributions of the Hebrews and their Christian offspring.

Tom Moron wrote about Byker Bob, "BTW, if I may be...

2008-04-01T15:43:00.000+13:00

Tom Moron wrote about Byker Bob, "BTW, if I may be so bold, this is perhaps the most intelligent and well reasoned post you have submitted to the forum since I have been posting here. If you keep this up, you soon have lots of enemies.-:)"

MY COMMENT: I hate to be the one to burst your bubble Tom, but I read all of Byker Bob's posts here and on other forums. Unlike you and your posts, BB while being intelligent does not come across as being self righteous and judgmental. Even your backhanded complement appears as if you are blessing him with your supreme judgment. And, having read enough Byker Bob's posts, I think it is safe to say that BB doesn't deify your God idol Herbert W. Armstrong.

I don't think Byker Bob will soon have lots of enemies.

But you Tom, are a different story. It's fun playing meaningless WCG theology games with you Tom. You will have your work cut out when I come up in the second resurrection, and God assigns you the responsibility of training me about how right and righteous you and Herbert were all along. :-)

Richard

Anonymous said... Has anybody seen a picture of...

2008-04-01T15:15:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...

Has anybody seen a picture of Tom yet? How difficult can getting a picture to Gavin be?

Tom is getting a haircut. Be patient. He is allowing his wife to cut it! Then he has to go out and allow someone to take his pic.

Has anybody seen a picture of Tom yet? How difficu...

2008-04-01T15:09:00.000+13:00

Has anybody seen a picture of Tom yet? How difficult can getting a picture to Gavin be?

Tom said...Yet some still believe that they are Ch...

2008-04-01T12:10:00.000+13:00

Tom said...
Yet some still believe that they are Christians, and that their baptism or ordination was valid***************

Well, as far as the Herbster goes, his ordination was a fraud. He never repented. As far as all the minions in the splits, they are the "Children of the Herb." A true Christian is one, according to the bible, is called and chosen. JN 6:44

But really, what is a true minister of Christ? Well first of all, they are called and chosen, and they don't molest their daughters. They give their time (their lives are made of time) and like Paul, work for a living and do not play "sponge bob." If God chose Herbie then he did not know his heart. Herbert was a sexual predator.

Then there is the money to help the poor. Yes, all those gold plated dishes and cups, the gold statues, the high living that the Herb did. Did this edify God? No. Just Herbie's ego

You wrote....But the more cogent question is, how come rational people allowed HWA, who was supposedly irrational, to deceived them? *************************

Well, as for myself, I had no idea that Gods apathetic apostle was a goof ball. I really believed at that low spot of hopelessness in my life the Herb was telling it like it was. I could use several other examples or descriptions from the psychology classes I have taken in recent years to describe the man, but Mr. Becker has said it well. He has the grasp on what made the man "tick" and it is correct.

So Tom, there you have it. Deception. Even educated people fall for it. Do a google on cults. You will find that many educated people fall into the trap.

By the way, if your ever "passover" this way and find yourself visiting Egypt, stop on by my place for some garlic pork steaks. Their out of this world! YUM!!! You bring the Hefeweizen bud!

Kscribe.

Hillary Clinton was ducking under enemy sniper fir...

2008-04-01T07:45:00.000+13:00

Hillary Clinton was ducking under enemy sniper fire in Bosnia and Rod C Meredith was a Golden Gloves champion.

Yeah Right!!!

"Return to Egypt"Of course, Egypt accomplished and...

2008-04-01T07:35:00.000+13:00

"Return to Egypt"

Of course, Egypt accomplished and contributed more to knowledge and culture than the Canaanite offspring Israel ever dreamed of. Egyptians did not have to invent a fantastic history for themselves. They actually had one.

Tom, you wrote:"In Egypt they can once again eat g...

2008-04-01T07:30:00.000+13:00

Tom, you wrote:

"In Egypt they can once again eat garlic, feed on the flesh of unclean things, offer their children to the god of Xmas, Easter and Halloween."

Is eating garlic not ok?
I've never heard that one before in COG circles.

It's just that you lumped it in with practices I AM familiar with, that some folks in COG circles consider an abomination.

~Mel

A later Christian pretending to be Paul said:Tit 1...

2008-04-01T06:50:00.000+13:00

A later Christian pretending to be Paul said:

Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

We know from history what happened there, the church turned from all things that smacked of Judaism. The gentiles stopped their mouths by kicking the Jews out of the churches.

However, this took place long after the time of Paul, so there you have a fake letter, as if from Paul. So, what else is fake? It all is. Christianity was invented after the destruction of the temple. Before then it was just another sect of Judaism that believed that salvation was without sacrifices and temple worship (sort of like the Essenes).

Byker Bob would have to work long and hard to make...

2008-04-01T06:48:00.000+13:00

Byker Bob would have to work long and hard to make enemies here at AW.