Comments on Ambassador Watch: Within a Decade

"I await with bated breath the final coming o...

2009-06-23T06:43:57.475+12:00

"I await with bated breath the final coming of the Lord."

Armstrongism has been holding its breath for three-quarters of a century, and look how brain-dead it is.

I wouldn't hold my breath too long, SKMarin, otherwise you'll find yourself on "the other side" sooner rather than later!

Seriously, all kidding aside: Stop waiting for a physical event that was proven to be a false prophecy two thousand years ago.

"Rather, the kingdom is inside you and outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and will understand that you are children of the Aeons of the Pleroma. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and embody poverty." - Gospel of Thomas

Purple Hymnal said: «a Real Live Preterist folks!!...

2009-06-23T04:33:36.284+12:00

Purple Hymnal said: «a Real Live Preterist folks!!»

If I believe that the physical precedes the spiritual (1 Cor 15:46), and the visible reveals the invisible (Rom 1:20) then things that have happened, i.e, events BCE and the first Century's lives of the Apostles and the Revelation of Christ through John, can tell me what yet is to be. If you have no chink in the bricks of the box surrounding your mind you cannot go where I am and we really have no basis for discussion--name calling will not suffice. I await with bated breath the final coming of the Lord.

No Jethro, anyone at Petra will be killed in the f...

2009-06-22T12:43:04.848+12:00

No Jethro, anyone at Petra will be killed in the first round of nukes aimed at Israel.

I wonder if Iran doesn't know that to nuke Israel is the same as nuking the Palestinians? Not to mention everyone else in the surrounding countries.

So no, you won't be safe in the deserts over there - I figure it will all be turned to glass sooner or later.

"I'm going with "not possible"....

2009-06-22T08:41:42.369+12:00

"I'm going with "not possible". Create a figure and try to emulate that figure in order to be "saved"? Nah, it ain't gonna happen."

You misunderstand me, Cork; I wasn't talking about creating a god and then living up to it (no believer has ever done that since history's started to be recorded); I'm saying that I doubt it is possible for people who don't already practice truth, mercy, love &c in their lives, to start.

Not that I think there are many who practice those things to begin with......

Well, just to be safe, I'm going to move to Pe...

2009-06-21T14:16:02.114+12:00

Well, just to be safe, I'm going to move to Petra and stay there. I will ride a camel and breathe dust and eat desert plants and animals (all clean, of course). When the rest of you get there I will show you around.

Purple Hymnal said... I still remain highly skept...

2009-06-21T03:48:53.198+12:00

Purple Hymnal said...
I still remain highly skeptical that such a transition is possible however. No matter how we try to label it, in the hopes that it might eventually come "true".
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I'm going with "not possible". Create a figure and try to emulate that figure in order to be "saved"? Nah, it ain't gonna happen.

That's not to say that a person cannot possibly reflect the image of "the perfect man" but it would always be dependent upon what one may believe is the perfect man.

Mulled Wine - Vin Brûlé During this holiday seas...

2009-06-21T01:01:41.308+12:00

Mulled Wine - Vin Brûlé

During this holiday season as the weather outside is cold and drear, I promise you this wonderful beverage will warm you and bring feelings of contentment. Dim the lights, cuddle in that cozy chair by the fire, and sip away. Enjoy!

Il faut prendre une pinte du meilleru Vin de Bourgogne. Les Vins de Champagne ne valent rein pour cela. Mettez ce Vin dans une Chocolatiere, avec demi-livre de sucre, une feüille de Macis, deux clous de girofle, & un petit baton de canella, deux dousaines de grains de coriander, & deux ou trios zests de citron, & deux feüilles de laurier franc: mettez ensuite vôtre chocolatiere devant un bon feu, & du charbon allumé tour autour; & quand vôtre vin fera bien chaud, ce que vous connoîtrez à la vapeur ou fume, vous y mettrez le feu avec du papier allumé, & la laisserz brûler jusqu’a ce qu’il s’éreigne tout seul: ensuite moûillez une serviette blanche, & le passez au travers dans une éguiere. Le server tout chaud.

Page 340, Nouvelle Instruction Pour Les Confitures, Les Liqueurs et Les Fruits de Massialot

• It is necessary to take one pint of the best wine of Burgundy. The Champagne wines are not the best for this.

• Put this wine in a chocolatiere or pipkin [ceramic, non-reactive oven-proof vessel], with a half-pound of sugar, a blade of mace, two cloves, a small stick of cinnamon, two dozen grains of coriander, two or three zests of lemon [I sometimes use orange], & two leaves of French bay-laurel [I find any other laurel to be too strong]:

• then put your chocolatiere in front of a good fire; as it sets in the coals, turn it around until it’s quite hot, which you will know from the steaming vapor;

• you will set the vapors on fire with lit paper, & allow it to burn until it dies out:

• then strain it through a wet, white cloth napkin into a ewer [tin, pewter, silver, vermeil, crystal were all used]. Serve very hot.
http://18thccuisine.blogspot.com/2005/12/vin-brl.html

"I seriously doubt though, that anyone will g...

2009-06-20T15:15:26.256+12:00

"I seriously doubt though, that anyone will get that any more than what "in the spirit" or "born from above" means. Oh, that's right, their KJV says "born again". How silly of me...."

I certainly didn't say it was possible, at all, for humans to start acting with truth, mercy, justice, and love; I'm just saying that's the point the text is making. The ethics of reciprocity, if you like.

The point of the text, unfortunately, seems to escape both theists AND non-theists alike, these days.

And if the "born again" phrasing makes you (like it does me) want to puke, the gnostic texts refer to it as "the resurrection from the dead", which is a more accurate description of the psychological transition from a self-centred worldview, to an empathic one, than the cruci-FICTION allegory, or the literalized version of it anyway, than the "born-againer" nonsense.

I still remain highly skeptical that such a transition is possible however. No matter how we try to label it, in the hopes that it might eventually come "true".

Gavin, We Germanised Brits have been known to liv...

2009-06-20T15:05:54.744+12:00

Gavin,

We Germanised Brits have been known to live in the aforementioned possession,getting in,of course,some practice for living in the Herbal Petra paradise,no entendre intended.Hope that doesn't ROCK you.

As for mulled wine,it is delicious, and I am sure that a recipe could be made available upon receipt of certain mandatory contributions.

Cheers,

Jorgheinz

>>>Then why do we have canine teeth? To ...

2009-06-20T11:08:47.766+12:00

>>>Then why do we have canine teeth?

To chew the cud! Or much grass like Nebechanezzar.

Jorgheinz, I think you've just revealed your l...

2009-06-20T09:56:58.677+12:00

Jorgheinz, I think you've just revealed your location in the currently frigid Southern Hemisphere. And I always thought you were living in Gibraltar!

As for mulled wine, it sounds delightful. I've always wanted to try it. Anyone got a good recipe to share?

Gerald Flurry a plonker.Who would have guessed. O...

2009-06-20T09:48:31.755+12:00

Gerald Flurry a plonker.Who would have guessed.

Of course, I am being completely disingenuous,whatever that means.

Gerald,like dear old Ron Weinland changes his prophetic calendar like some folks change their socks,in this case,more than less.

Sincere suckers still contribute their gold despite the obvious shortcomings of Gerry's throw-away gospel.

Let's wish Gerry a Merry Mid-Winter Xmas with mulled wine,with the man himself being the turkey.

Cheers,

Jorgheinz

"Major news sources ask Will Christ Ever Retu...

2009-06-20T09:41:25.000+12:00

"Major news sources ask Will Christ Ever Return? Yes, He will. And probably within a decade!"

Major news sources (unnamed) even believe in a Christ? No!

Purple Hymnal said... "The "personifica...

2009-06-20T04:05:55.363+12:00

Purple Hymnal said...
"The "personification" of truth, love, justice and mercy, however, may return at any time."

I would add to the end "to any human being, in any place, regardless of belief, circumstances, religion, or deity of choice (or none)."

Also: Not a "personification" in the anthropomorphic sense, but in the sense that such a person who has thus "returned" (to themselves), may then have a clearer perspective of what it means to be a better person.

As to whether or not they put that perspective into action in their lives and the world around them once it has been realized, there's this verse in Matthew, something about fruit trees.......
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Thanks for clearing that up a little. I seriously doubt though, that anyone will get that any more than what "in the spirit" or "born from above" means. Oh, that's right, their KJV says "born again". How silly of me....

Where would the cog prophets be without words like...

2009-06-20T04:02:40.222+12:00

Where would the cog prophets be without words like "may" or "perhaps" or "probably", they would be lost!

Dill Weed said:
"Well at least he has enough sense to not proclaim himself a Witness of Revelation and that Christ's coming in 2012."

He does, however, claim to be "that prophet", so he is, in my opinion, crazier than Wienland.

Robert said:
"God intended man to originally be vegetarians, but sin, changed the order of society."

Then why do we have canine teeth?

Ron Wheeler wrote: "When the New Covenant wa...

2009-06-20T02:48:21.546+12:00

Ron Wheeler wrote:
"When the New Covenant was ratified and the Holy Spirit promised by it was made available, the wearing of "tassels" was no longer necessary."

Someone replied:
....[that] is classic Armstrong double talk.

The law is abolished by the Holy Spirt, so now we no longer have to physically keep the law in the way the Israelites did! Spiritualising most of the LAW!

In my evangelical phase I bought that argument too. But I soon realized, especially among Calvinists, they had created a new Torah with even more exhaustive prohibitions and requirements.

I think a better argument is that
Jews didn't (and don't) believe in an afterlife. Although early Judaism appears to have believed in reincarnation.

The law was meant to apply to daily life as a human being and therefore completely inapplicable to one status in the afterlife. Jews don't believe in an afterlife.

The Jewish mind deals with the here and now. One can even be an atheist and still be accepted in a Jewish Temple. And Jewish Rabbi's do not shun people who disagree with the Rabbi.

The Christian mind is on the life after this and whatever "reward" awaits.

You can't retroject modern thinking about the life to come into ancient Hebrew writings that didn't believe in it, and be honest about it.

There's no need to "spiritualize" away the Torah, when contemplating the applicability of the Torah to the Christian.

I suspect the reason the Torah is referenced in Christian writings was that the new religion wanted to expropriate ancient texts as their own to give the weight of history to the movement. Much in the same way earlier Rome imported gods from Greece.

Tom, yes I did mean that that world does not FU...

2009-06-20T02:06:49.699+12:00

Tom,
yes I did mean that that world does not FULLY exist.

And yes, things will get MUCH worse. Every generation seems to believe that things are as bad as they can possibly get, and then they get worse (morally and spiritually). You ain't seen nothin' yet.

And who ever said that "Joe junior" doesn't believe in prophecy? He and the Church rightly believe that prophecy should not be where the Church places its emphasis, for reasons that become apparent to anyone who reads many of the posts here. There has been way too much focus on specific prophecy (and setting dates), not only in the ex-WCG and splinters, but in other churches as well.

Tom, there ARE still MANY good people, devout and converted Christians out there, If you haven't seen them, you are keeping your eyes closed.

As for the "Church", I mean THE Church as a whole, around the world, Catholics, Protestants, independents, etc. The Christian Church is growing in grace and knowledge, and gradually leaving legalism behind. We in the GCI like to believe that we are leading the way. And, it appears that we are.

">>There are still MANY good people lef...

2009-06-20T01:28:09.366+12:00

">>There are still MANY good people left on this planet.<<"

You know who said: "What? Who are they, can we have some names, please?"

That self-righteous bigot in you is starting to shine right through again Tom.

larry said... >>Tom, the world that is desc...

2009-06-19T20:15:29.844+12:00

larry said...

>>Tom, the world that is described as being in existence at the time of Christ's return simply does not yet exist.<<

If you had said does not FULLY exist, I would agree.

>>It is a world where sin is pervasive, greed is the watchword, and yet there is incredible wealth and stifling government control, to the point that the true worship of God is banned or at least driven completely underground. We haven't reached that place yet.<<

I don't know what the conditions are like where you live or which news media you read or watch, but sins of every kind, rampant greed and government control exist in every country on earth!

>>There are still MANY good people left on this planet.<<

What? Who are they, can we have some names, please?

>>Spiritually, the world is not yet like Sodom,<<

It that case, Sodom must have been pretty awful! For today homosexuality and lesbianism are accepted as normal lifestyles, and legislation has been implemented to allow couples to marry. Meanwhile, it has recently been reported that around 66% of heterosexual couples are living together, instead of getting married, and near 40% of all marriages end in divorce. And if I begin to outline the other problems that threaten to overwhelm us, this post would be too long.

>>and the Church has not "made herself ready".<<

Which church are referring to?

However, my point was, how comfortable is your position in GCI, when Joe junior does not believe in prophecy?

Jesus is coming tonight oops I thought he was, jus...

2009-06-19T14:01:10.112+12:00

Jesus is coming tonight oops I thought he was, just nasa sending a rocket to the moon for a second I thought I seen a white horse, we need two more two witnesses Ronnie is a flop.

Ah-hahahahaha we snagged a Real Live Preterist fol...

2009-06-19T12:43:20.566+12:00

Ah-hahahahaha we snagged a Real Live Preterist folks!! (Re: SKMarin's "The Second Coming really happened! It was all SpuuuuurrrrriCHOOOOOL!")

Funny, Ron Weinland says the same thing about his Trumpets....over and over (and over) again.

"The "personification" of truth, lo...

2009-06-19T12:36:36.879+12:00

"The "personification" of truth, love, justice and mercy, however, may return at any time."

I would add to the end "to any human being, in any place, regardless of belief, circumstances, religion, or deity of choice (or none)."

Also: Not a "personification" in the anthropomorphic sense, but in the sense that such a person who has thus "returned" (to themselves), may then have a clearer perspective of what it means to be a better person.

As to whether or not they put that perspective into action in their lives and the world around them once it has been realized, there's this verse in Matthew, something about fruit trees.......

>>>He should have been open-minded enough...

2009-06-19T12:01:48.785+12:00

>>>He should have been open-minded enough to research the history of the WCG and its splinter groups.

What good if any will do that in the long term? Few if any ex Armstrongites will ever go back into mainstream Christianity. They either bow out of religion altogether or remain in limbo (going backwards and forwards between the theology seemingly not being able to make their minds up).

The kindest thing would be to have left the man in his position of ignorance!

>>>The problem with the churches of God i...

2009-06-19T11:55:08.942+12:00

>>>The problem with the churches of God is that they are still walking around with their yardsticks, blinded by physical thinking

John Wheeler, Living Church of God wrote: "When the New Covenant was ratified and the Holy Spirit promised by it was made available, the wearing of "tassels" was no longer necessary."

There is classic Armstrong double talk. The law is abolished by the Holy Spirt, so now we no longer have to physically keep the law in the way the Israelites did! Spiritualising most of the LAW!

Armstrongism removes the physical requirements of:
1. circumcision 2. tassels 3. kippahs 4. drain blood from animals 5. observe purity laws

Armstrong heaped most of the laws under Levitical laws and done away with them except those mentioned in the New Testamant (Sabbath, Holy Days, Unclean meats)defining them as moral or spiritual law and twisted the tithing laws for his benefit.

The truth is, HWA didn't want to stand out from the crowd, gave his fellowers a couple of Old Testament laws to keep whilst disregarding large portions of the Torah. There are 613 laws in total, ask yourself, how many of these did you actually keep?

>>>Those Sabbatarian disciples that look ...

2009-06-19T11:40:09.038+12:00

>>>Those Sabbatarian disciples that look for the resumption of animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple look amiss. They have abandoned Christ; they are without discernment, and having tasted of the goodness of God,

Animal sacrifices are here today, it happens when an animal is killed in the slaughterhouse. We eat the meat after the animal has sacrificed its life for us.

God intended man to originally be vegetarians, but sin, changed the order of society.

Are we saying then, we are without grace because we partake of meat, (another form of animal sacrifice)?

Christians that are really honest are vegetarians!