Comments on Ambassador Watch: Bride of Packenstein

I can remember shedding tears when Mr. Pack gave h...

2008-06-16T07:31:00.000+12:00

I can remember shedding tears when Mr. Pack gave his good-bye sermon in Rochester, NY. . . when the Buffalo, NY Church fasted for his back to heal. . . his warm, and compassionate counsel to me as I considered myself one of his "Golden Boys."

As a sermon speaker, very few, if any could challenge him. . . and there was obviously some talent he had as a writer. However, as time went on, and the WCG dissolved into splinters and obscurity, many of these men could not shake the caste system they had taken part and encouraged.

When I hear of him asking the brethern to sell what they have. . . I want to believe he isn't doing this and would like to see the proof. However, it's not until something hits you square in the face, that one realizes that the situation concerning Mr. Pack is really a major TRAGEDY! As a minister, he will take the word given by his Elders, over the obvious truth provided by a lay member, (much less a wife and homemaker.) And as I had to experience, would sacrifice that poor and "dumb sheep" so that his Elder could definitely save face. . . then I knew that he had lost the gift he once had. Having my wife basically called a liar, woke me up out of this nightmare.

I am sorry at hearing of Shirley Pack's passing. What is unfortunate, is that many in the RCG will think that Mr. Pack is SO righteous that God immediately provided a wife out of nowhere for him. With ALL the rules and regulations concerning who can get married. . baptism & real conversion. . .and the glut of women available to men in the RCG, I'm just absolutely amazed. I know we should not condemn and judge another person. Nevertheless, I can only feel pity for Mr. Pack who has become blind, over time, with the power he continually yields among his brethern!

I'm sorta busy, but surely someone out there has t...

2008-06-16T06:49:00.000+12:00

I'm sorta busy, but surely someone out there has the time to complain to the OH Board of Nursing that this lady, acted as a nurse, and most surely administered the narcotics, etc. to Shirley in her dying months within the Pack's home...oh I mean house. After all, was she not the only one regularly in the house other than Dave? We all know that Dave was too busy "doing the work" to administer her powerful painkillers, etc.

I hope someone will take the appropriate action who has their complete address because this needs to get out.

www.state.oh.us

Way to go Dave!!! Now you have a new Mrs. Pack to ...

2008-06-13T03:16:00.000+12:00

Way to go Dave!!! Now you have a new Mrs. Pack to do your bidding and bring in extra household income too. Remember when I worked for you... and you said if Mrs. Pack died that you would never remarry? You are such a fraud and a liar!! The new Mrs. Pack has already found that out, I am sure of it!

In Dave's May Update, "his wife" was mentioned a f...

2008-06-11T15:21:00.000+12:00

In Dave's May Update, "his wife" was mentioned a few times, but still remains nameless (not even "Mrs Pack"). It appears likely that some internal announcement must have been made off the record. I wonder if she has been in the audience?

Don't Tell Billy Joel! He's always a He can kill ...

2008-06-10T12:42:00.000+12:00

Don't Tell Billy Joel!

He's always a

He can kill with a smile
He can wound with his eyes
He can ruin your faith with his casual lies
And he only reveals what he wants you to see
He hides like a child
But he's God Faux Apostle to me

He can lead you to love
He can take you or leave you
He can ask for the truth
But he'll never believe you
And he'll take what you give him, as long as its free
He steals like a thief
But he's God's Faux Apostle to me

Chorus
Oh-he takes care of himself
He can wait if he wants
He's ahead of his time
Oh-and he never gives out
And he never gives in
He just changes his mind

And he'll promise you more
Than the garden of eden
Then he'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin
But he'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause he's God's Faux Apostle to me

Chorus

He is frequently kind
And he's suddenly cruel
He can do as he pleases
He's nobodys fool
But he cant be convicted
He's earned his degree
And the most he will do
Is throw shadows at you
But he's God's Faux Apostle to me

Dr T trashed Dave again, but there was no mention ...

2008-06-10T09:58:00.000+12:00

Dr T trashed Dave again, but there was no mention of the new Mrs P. The assault was mostly based on Dave's gimme gimme sermon -- and a down in the downloads.

I think young Bob must tread carefully, as older folk will remember when HWA pulled the same tricks himself. Go to your bank and borrow...

fyi again said, "I can't help but think that Mr. 2...

2008-06-10T07:56:00.000+12:00

fyi again said, "I can't help but think that Mr. 21st Century Apostle laid on the charm, and only now is she beginning to realize just what a fine mess she's gotten herself into."

MY COMMENT - What mess?

All she has to do now is file for divorce, claim alimony and receive a settlement for a chunk of cash from his CG religion business.

Not bad for having to sleep with the Apostle Dave a couple times, and give him nuggie.

Richard

OK, third times the charm... Click this link for ...

2008-06-10T07:43:00.000+12:00

OK, third times the charm... Click this link for the picture

OK, let's try this again, the pic is at:http://i22...

2008-06-10T07:41:00.000+12:00

OK, let's try this again, the pic is at:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd64/UCG_JSLAGF/ReligiousFiguresNIcons/VAPack.jpg

As mentioned above, the new Mrs. Pack (MP2?) appea...

2008-06-10T07:39:00.000+12:00

As mentioned above, the new Mrs. Pack (MP2?) appears in RCG's "Behind The Work - 2007" video. Here's the specifics:

Link: http://www.thercg.org/btw/btw_2007.html

You can choose from one of three formats, or watch it streamed. MP2 appears at 01:07:24

Or better yet, save yourself the trouble and view an extracted pic at:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd64/UCG_JSLAGF/ReligiousFiguresNIcons/VAPack.jpg

I feel badly for her. I can't help but think that Mr. 21st Century Apostle laid on the charm, and only now is she beginning to realize just what a fine mess she's gotten herself into. If as was stated above this is her first COG experience, she's probably more than a little naive about characters such as Pack.

It's been my experience, based on people I've known in RCG that they idolize Pack. They hold him in awe, perhaps even more so than was practiced in the Armstrong era WCG.

I've met Dave Pack, and he is very charismatic. No doubt he can be quite charming to someone who doesn't know any better, and who looks up to him as God's great servant.

He also knows how to manipulate people by flattery. He claims to despise flattery, yet he is very skilled at it (classic hypocrisy). I've witnessed him use it first hand and I can tell you he's very skilled at it.

RCG is very secretive, so it's likely his loyal inner circle has known about the marriage for some time. I'd wager one of his favored "Two Witness" wannabes performed the wedding.

I don't think one should automatically assume that...

2008-06-10T05:39:00.000+12:00

I don't think one should automatically assume that the Packster just tied the noose err knot! He probably has been married for some time now and only made reference to his "new" wife closer to the anniversary of Shirley's death thereby slipping it in in order to make it seem more acceptable. If one can suffer through it there is a picture towards the end of the "work" 2007 video that shows the "new" wife. And more important than Herbert's maneuvering on makeup was the reversal of the divorce and remarriage doctrine that many people suffered through UNTIL HE Herbert wanted to marry "Mrs. Martin"! Yeah such a great example!

"Vernia's name appears in the Real sTruth way back...

2008-06-09T19:22:00.000+12:00

"Vernia's name appears in the Real sTruth way back in August 2007!

That August Real issue is the same issue in which he pays tribute to Shirley, while making as many marriage comparisons to Loma's impacted turd on HWA in the same article.

Far be it from me to correct the Gavinmeister. Ho...

2008-06-09T13:48:00.000+12:00

Far be it from me to correct the Gavinmeister. However this is all wrong..

"The news is out... David C. Pack, Grand High Poobah of the Restored Church of God, has remarried, less than a year after the death of his first wife, Shirley"

"his first wife , Shirley."

Should read

"his first wife, Mrs. Pack"
"his first wife, Mrs. David Pack
"his first wife, Mrs David C Pack"
"his first wife."

At no time was did she actually have a name.

The new wife will now be referred to as:

"his second wife, Mrs. Pack."
"his second wife, Mrs...

Oh you get it.

Weinland curses his critics with cancer and Pack, ...

2008-06-09T02:15:00.000+12:00

Weinland curses his critics with cancer and Pack, at the height of his honeymoon bliss, throws back the demon card.

This is a nasty sandbox.

What you're just coming to that conclusion now?

This has been a nasty, dog-poop and rodent-dropping-filled, mosquito-larva-infested sandbox since Herbie started cajoling people to park their butts in a drafty old schoolhouse in Eugene, OR, in 1933.......

I suppose marrying your dead wife's nurse is bette...

2008-06-09T01:55:00.000+12:00

I suppose marrying your dead wife's nurse is better that marrying your babysitter. It's in that sort of league, though.

/-- DP turns age 60 this coming December. Since Ve...

2008-06-09T01:08:00.000+12:00

/-- DP turns age 60 this coming December. Since Vernia is 45 - he married a woman 25 years younger. --/

Or 15 years younger, depending on which state you went to grade-school in... ;-)

Gotta love 'im -- Dave is a true disciple of the Apostle. Garner Ted said he was shocked -- shocked! -- when his dad left Loma's deathbed, came out into the living room where all the evangelists were mourning, and said, "Well, I guess it would look bad to the church if I got remarried immediately..."

Libro

Weinland curses his critics with cancer and Pack, ...

2008-06-08T19:45:00.000+12:00

Weinland curses his critics with cancer and Pack, at the height of his honeymoon bliss, throws back the demon card.

This is a nasty sandbox.

Send for our free booklet, "What is a True Christian?"

DP turns age 60 this coming December. Since Vernia...

2008-06-08T17:04:00.000+12:00

DP turns age 60 this coming December. Since Vernia is 45 - he married a woman 25 years younger.

Did Pack hire Vernia for her office and secretarial skills, or for some other skill?

To look at it another way, if Pack turns 80, Vernia will be 65.

There is a Vernia Anstey listed by Reunion.com, pr...

2008-06-08T12:51:00.000+12:00

There is a Vernia Anstey listed by Reunion.com, profile http://www.reunion.com/159541576 - but without joining, all that is revealed is Lockport, NY, age 45, birthday April 4...

Nice couple. Too bad we cant see the Mrs. Wonder i...

2008-06-08T09:51:00.000+12:00

Nice couple.
Too bad we cant see the Mrs. Wonder if he'll take a page out of Winelands book and name the new Mrs. the Second Witness.
Some things are stranger than fiction.

Vernia's name appears in the Real sTruth way back ...

2008-06-08T09:45:00.000+12:00

Vernia's name appears in the Real sTruth way back in August 2007!

Re: Dave's photo -- he's wearing a red tie; in China, that counts as a wedding photo...

Has nutty ronnie turned into a pumkin yet?

2008-06-08T09:34:00.000+12:00

Has nutty ronnie turned into a pumkin yet?

Is that a picture of Dave and his new wife on this...

2008-06-08T09:32:00.000+12:00

Is that a picture of Dave and his new wife on this posting? Pretty much looks like the way I would expect Dave to take a wedding picture of the happy couple

:)

"So her license lapsed 8-31-2006.Does this mean sh...

2008-06-08T07:26:00.000+12:00

"So her license lapsed 8-31-2006.
Does this mean she was "nursing" to Shirley Pack without a license? Let's hope she wasn't administering any medications in violation of Ohio law."

Correction: Her license does show to be lapsed as of 8-31-2006 on the Ohio Board of Nursing website, without renewal. If Shirley Pack died a year later on July 22, 2007. So she could have been administering narcotics or other powerful drugs, doing so without a valid license, such as Vicodin and morphine in violation of Ohio law- that is, until Shirley died, and she became Pack's new bride.

Ohio has both "no-fault" and "fault" grounds for d...

2008-06-08T06:11:00.000+12:00

Ohio has both "no-fault" and "fault" grounds for divorce. The "no-fault" grounds include "incompatibility" and "living separate and apart without cohabitation for one year." There are nine "fault " grounds in Ohio. These "fault" grounds include:

1. another spouse living at the time of marriage (bigamy);
2. willful absence of a party from the marital home for one year;
3. adultery;
4. extreme cruelty (defined as "acts conduct calculated to destroy the peace of mind and happiness of one of the parties to the marriage");
5. fraudulent contract (i.e. a party was induced to enter the marriage as a result of a fraudulent representation that materially affects the essential elements of the marriage;
6. gross neglect of duty (i.e. acts that constitute an omission to perform a legal duty, such as a failure to support the family);
7. habitual drunkenness;
8. imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal institution at the time of the filing of the complaint; and
9. an out-of-state divorce.

Ohio is a separate property state. I wonder if there is a prenuptual agreement, and if the interests of the children are protected.

Stan