Comments on Ambassador Watch: UCG - Old Dogs and New Tricks

Nostrildamus,That was gross.

2008-01-19T02:48:00.000+13:00

Nostrildamus,

That was gross.

Oh me oh my!More Real True Truths have been offere...

2008-01-18T20:16:00.000+13:00

Oh me oh my!

More Real True Truths have been offered(as opposed to all those fake truths).

Awhile back, under God's direction, I dug up HWA, cut off his scrotum, and dried it in a flowery field of fragrant flowery flowers, and kept it pliable by massaging it with the OT Kaneh-Bosm oily mix.

As instructed by God, every time I learn of another Real True Truth(as opposed to all those fake truths), I scribble it on a little piece of paper and shove it in my God-inspired "HWA scrotum-pouch" which hangs from my belt.

Those truths cannot be denied. As a mighty angel informed me, "Verily I say unto you, ye who carry the heavy load, on the road which stuffeth the scrode, with the Truth that must be knowed, which floweth forth as the mother lode and the seeds that shall be sowed, shall becomest a God in night-time dreary, while your minions get all too-late teary. Behold, those that bloat, and reject the Truth in the HWA scrote, shall feel the wrath of your fiery bath."

Ooooh! The scrotum is just twitching with anticipation! It can hardly wait till those who reject the Sabbath get fried!

True Love can get pretty hot!

We love you Tom! Look inside the HWA scrotum, Tom! The Truth is in there!

"But I don’t know if anyone here has traced their ...

2008-01-18T14:17:00.000+13:00

"But I don’t know if anyone here has traced their DNA that far back?"

Dunno..they were prolly called Neanderflies back then. I went through the National Geographic Genome Project for the testing.

Anonymous said: "Ah, don't fret too much over Tom,...

2008-01-18T13:49:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said: "Ah, don't fret too much over Tom, Dennis. When Jesus returns, He'll heal Tom of his Armstrongism, unless of course Tom mistakes Jesus for the antichrist due to his Armstrongist programming."

Every time I think my responses to Tom are a little too biting or caustic, I think about the real trouble that a self-righteous busybody like Tom can cause his bretheren (Not to mention, his wife and children)...and then I don't feel so bad. Hint: Check out his website and tell me what you think.

Tom, if you would be so kind as to publish your URL again?

Thanks.

DennisDiehl said... "If it helps..I have traced my...

2008-01-18T13:43:00.000+13:00

DennisDiehl said...

"If it helps..I have traced my DNA out of Africa 160,000 years ago , up thru Arabia, Iran, Iraq and into the Russian stepps making a left turn into europe 35,000 years ago where I no doubt overthrew the King of the Neanderthals in France so all French Aristocracy sprang from ME."

Apparently fruit flies share nearly 60% of human genes. Also they can become addicted to alcohol, cocaine and other drugs. They have a wake-sleep cycle like humans do. They have complicated rituals of behaviour.
But I don’t know if anyone here has traced their DNA that far back?

Well Thomas is Thomas and has a particular Bible r...

2008-01-18T12:54:00.000+13:00

Well Thomas is Thomas and has a particular Bible readers amazement that I have forgotten what the Bible says.

I "forgot" all about Paul saying he had been to the third heaven but couldn't let us in on what he saw or heard..Very convenient. Paul had a habit of going unique places (Arabia and the Third Heaven) but then completely forgot all about telling anyone why. So we make up reasons...He was being taught personally by Jesus for 3 years in Arabia...uh huh.....

I went to Limbus Amazicus Fantasticum once but I can't tell you what I saw or heard...it was awesome :)

Ah, don't fret too much over Tom, Dennis. When Je...

2008-01-18T12:07:00.000+13:00

Ah, don't fret too much over Tom, Dennis. When Jesus returns, He'll heal Tom of his Armstrongism, unless of course Tom mistakes Jesus for the antichrist due to his Armstrongist programming.

PS And you can drop the "and you used to be a min...

2008-01-18T11:05:00.000+13:00

PS And you can drop the "and you used to be a minister" as if that was the highwater mark of my theological studies. It was the start and I knew NOTHING then as I know now.

I was a minister who was shown a perspective that I repudiate now wishing I had gone to a school that was more honest about church history, science and the problems of the Bible both OT and NT.

Tom said:Note that Paul said, "I have received of ...

2008-01-18T11:02:00.000+13:00

Tom said:Note that Paul said, "I have received of the Lord," and not that he had been taught it by any man. Yet you say Paul never quoted him!

The question is HOW did he receive it from a man he never met. It was in vision Tom..not in reality. Jesus was DEAD long before Paul ever got anything from him.

Tom said: "And last of all he was seen of me also, as one born out of due time."

Of course, but again, the 500 are unknown to history and the seeing is not literally. It was in vision meaning that even the 500, who only paul mentions "saw" jesus the same way he did...in VISION!
You know.."I saw Elvis at the mall"

Tom said:

Paul began, "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"(1 Cor.15:3).

That's exactly right. All the ideas about Jesus death, who he was and his story came from the scriptures It's called Midrash and is not literally or anything having to do with eyewitness accounts. It was "according to the scriptures." Not according to what Paul saw in reality.

Tom says:
Paul met Jesus of the road to Damascus and in visions and revelations. He was also taken up to the third heaven, to the very throne of God, where Christ sits at the right hand of the father.

According the apologist Luke but this tale is not told by Paul in Galatians. Instead, Paul says he was called from the womb. You need to see that Luke contradicts Paul's account of his calling. But you don't. Acts is apologetic fiction.

Tom puzzles over:
>>>And these matters all decided by a man who never met Jesus in the flesh, never quoted him, ever told a story of his life, miracles, healings, teachings, trial, death or resurrection in the real world,<<<

When you make comments like the above, I really have to wonder how you were ever ordained a minister!"

I don't make this stuff up Tom. It is common theological discussion that Paul NEVER knew any human Jesus which is why he fails to quote him or know anything of him even when he is asked "sometimes we don't know how to pray.." Good time to repeat "the lord's prayer" teaching, but Paul never knew of it.

You're a Bible reader Tom.

Dennis

Tom..I don't think anyone could miss a point as we...

2008-01-18T09:56:00.000+13:00

Tom..I don't think anyone could miss a point as well as you.

DennisDiehl said...TOM>>>"In areas of doctrine, al...

2008-01-18T09:10:00.000+13:00

DennisDiehl said...

TOM>>>"In areas of doctrine, all matters were referred to Paul for his decision."<<<

>>>And these matters all decided by a man who never met Jesus in the flesh, never quoted him, ever told a story of his life, miracles, healings, teachings, trial, death or resurrection in the real world,<<<

When you make comments like the above, I really have to wonder how you were ever ordained a minister!

Paul met Jesus of the road to Damascus and in visions and revelations. He was also taken up to the third heaven, to the very throne of God, where Christ sits at the right hand of the father.

Furthermore, when introducing the Passover to the Corinthian church, he began by saying, "For I have received of the Lord that which I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus same night in which he was betrayed took bread.."(! Cor.11:23). Note that Paul said, "I have received of the Lord," and not that he had been taught it by any man. Yet you say Paul never quoted him!

Moreover, when confirming the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, Paul began, "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"(1 Cor.15:3). You may read the rest of the passage, if you dare!

After listing all the different people Jesus met or saw him after his resurrection, Paul says. "And last of all he was seen of me also, as one born out of due time."

Finally, this is a thumb nail sketch of the many biblical texts that show Christ relationship with, the Chosen Vessel. Methinks that you need to read Hansel and Gretel much more often.

St Tom sayeth: "Decisions on matters of doctrine a...

2008-01-18T08:38:00.000+13:00

St Tom sayeth: "Decisions on matters of doctrine are recorded in the bible, which I study and meditate on day and night."

OK - So what is the correct position on Makeup? Divorce? Doctors? Voting? Civil Service?

Your 'apustule' couldn't seem to make up his mind and you claim him to be 'God's servant'.

You meditate on it day and night? If it is there in black and white, then what is the point of continued meditation?

St Tom said: "Really? Someone who died has already...

2008-01-18T08:33:00.000+13:00

St Tom said: "Really? Someone who died has already come back and told you what comes next, and you have rejected what he said."

Tom, you apparently read to quickly, what I stated is "Someone I know." This means someone who was alive, that I knew, died, and then came back to me in some form and reported on the hereafter.

Relying soley on the printed word that has been f'd with for thousands of years is not reliable not untainted source. You should be smart enough to realize that.

I don't reject Christ, I reject what you say about him.

Charlie said... >>>So Tommy, with herbie taking...

2008-01-18T08:27:00.000+13:00

Charlie said...

>>>So Tommy, with herbie taking a dirt nap, wherefore dost thou looketh for decisions on matters of doctrine? <<<

Decisions on matters of doctrine are recorded in the bible, which I study and meditate on day and night.

Charlie said...>>>My philosophy has been rapidly m...

2008-01-18T08:17:00.000+13:00

Charlie said...

>>>My philosophy has been rapidly moving toward the, "Until someone I know that has died can come back and tell me what comes next, I'm moving forward as if I get one crack at it" mindset...and I plan accordingly.<<<

Really? Someone who died has already come back and told you what comes next, and you have rejected what he said.

Tom said:"This comment is not supported by scriptu...

2008-01-18T07:03:00.000+13:00

Tom said:
"This comment is not supported by scripture."

which, when you understand it, is not unlike saying "this idea is not supported in the story of Hansel and Gretel."

Tom noted:

"In areas of doctrine, all matters were referred to Paul for his decision."

And these matters all decided by a man who never met Jesus in the flesh, never quoted him, ever told a story of his life, miracles, healings, teachings, trial, death or resurrection in the real world, while the 12 who followed Jesus for one or three years depending on which gospel you choose, fade into oblivion.

Yep, that's who I'd pick to tell me about Jesus life and meaning.

Tom Mahon said:'Anonymous said>>>Governamce in the...

2008-01-18T06:48:00.000+13:00

Tom Mahon said:
'Anonymous said
>>>Governamce in the New Testament applies to each local assembly - not to a 'denomination'.<<<

Not true. Paul was responsible for the care of all the churches. By God's inspiration, he appointed ministers in all churches or delegated it to Titus, Timothy or another senior minister.'

COMMENT: II Cor 11:28: 'care' is anxious solicitude, anxiety (cf Matt 13:22). He had 'the heart of a shepherd'. Paul had authority by virtue of being an apostle and therefore a representative of Jesus. The next 'generation' of Christians transmitted the apostolic teachings (Jude 3).

There is no record that Paul had contact with most of the other Twelve, or with many of those brethren who scattered throughout the Empire and beyond after Pentecost (cp Acts 8:27-39).
===
'In areas of doctrine, all matters were referred to Paul for his decision
...each assembly had its leadership (overseer/elder, deacon). But the 'clergy' (kleros) were ALL the brethren who agreed the leadership from among themselves<<<

This comment is not supported by scripture. Where did you get it from'

COMMENT: For starters try Matthew 23:8-11, I Peter 5:3 (heritage=kleros). All the brethren had a say in the appointment of their leaders from their own assembly (cf Acts 6:2-3, 14:23, II Cor 8:19).

St Tom proclaimeth: "In areas of doctrine, all mat...

2008-01-18T06:09:00.000+13:00

St Tom proclaimeth: "In areas of doctrine, all matters were referred to Paul for his decision."

So Tommy, with herbie taking a dirt nap, wherefore dost thou looketh for decisions on matters of doctrine? I am especially interested in your answer since you are on record as saying the current COG's are run by hirelings. (I use a different term but in the end it means the same thing)

I'll bet you claim this authority.

Anonymous said...>>>Governamce in the New Testamen...

2008-01-18T05:48:00.000+13:00

Anonymous said...

>>>Governamce in the New Testament applies to each local assembly - not to a 'denomination'.<<<

Not true. Paul was responsible for the care of all the churches. By God's inspiration, he appointed ministers in all churches or delegated it to Titus, Timothy or another senior minister.

In areas of doctrine, all matters were referred to Paul for his decision.

>>> ...each assembly had its leadership (overseer/elder, deacon). But the 'clergy' (kleros) were ALL the brethren who agreed the leadership from among themselves<<<

This comment is not supported by scripture. Where did you get it from?

If it helps..I have traced my DNA out of Africa 16...

2008-01-18T05:00:00.000+13:00

If it helps..I have traced my DNA out of Africa 160,000 years ago , up thru Arabia, Iran, Iraq and into the Russian stepps making a left turn into europe 35,000 years ago where I no doubt overthrew the King of the Neanderthals in France so all French Aristocracy sprang from ME.

Does this mean I am special? :)
Please say yes!

Scroller said: Yet their claim to be the True Chur...

2008-01-18T04:53:00.000+13:00

Scroller said: Yet their claim to be the True Church in terms of historical descent (if that is the criteria) is stronger than either Rome's or any of Rome's Protestant spinoffs.

Orthodox claims of apostolic succession are just as strong, and as weak, as Rome's claim of apostolic succession. It's all based on the same class of ancient Christian documents.

By the way, the Catholic Church accepts the validity of Eastern Orthodox apostolic succession.

(Actually a further trivia clarification--the Syrian Orthodox Church unlike other Orthodox actually does look to Peter rather than Andrew--they consider Peter to have founded the church of Antioch in 33 AD, before Peter later allegedly founded the church at Rome.)

The historical documents that place Saints Peter and Paul at the head of Rome's apostolic succession are earlier than the historical documents that place St. Peter at the head of Antioch's apostolic succession, so if St. Peter's role in the founding of the Roman church is merely "alleged," then the same must be said of his role in the founding of the Antiochene church. The New Testament does attest to St. Peter's presence in Antioch, however, and later in Rome ("Babylon," as ancient tradition unanimously interprets I Peter 5:13). The Catholic Church accepts the Petrine origin of Antioch's apostolic succession, and the writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch circa 110 A.D. testify to affectionate relations between the Roman and Antiochene churches. Indeed, some early Syrian Christian texts even show St. Serapion of Antioch, who lived in the latter 100s A.D., as having been consecrated bishop by St. Victor of Rome.

It is only the Orthodox Church of Constantinople that traces its apostolic succession to St. Andrew, who according to tradition appointed St. Stachys as first bishop of the church at Byzantium. The Alexandrian church traces its succession to St. Mark the Evangelist, the Ephesian church to St. Paul and St. John, the church at Jerusalem to St. James the Lord's Brother, son of Alphaeus, the church at Edessa (from which the Chaldean and Assyrian churches of Iraq derive their origin) to St. Thaddaeus, and the Malankar and Malabar Christians of India trace their succession to St. Thomas. How reliable all of these traditions are is in dispute, of course, but the traditions are very old, which is more than can be said for Armstrongist claims of succession.

Charlie said:"My philosophy has been rapidly movin...

2008-01-18T03:50:00.000+13:00

Charlie said:

"My philosophy has been rapidly moving toward the, "Until someone I know that has died can come back and tell me what comes next, I'm moving forward as if I get one crack at it" mindset...and I plan accordingly."

That's how I feel at the moment as well. Everyone acts and talks like they really know the scoop but the scoop is all based on others who just swore the Deity gave them the scoop. And then the Scoopmeisters couldn't agree either and started accusing each other for not abiding by the pure true scoopage. The rest is history.

I keep going back to a spirit, trapped in a limited five sensed carbon based wetsuit until it's free to see all that really is.

Dennis Diehl said: "I have a feeling the final tru...

2008-01-18T03:27:00.000+13:00

Dennis Diehl said: "I have a feeling the final truth in life is going to be something like....send for our free booklet"

You could be right Dennis. Who knows? My philosophy has been rapidly moving toward the, "Until someone I know that has died can come back and tell me what comes next, I'm moving forward as if I get one crack at it" mindset...and I plan accordingly.

It certainly works better than armstrong's garbage ever did for me.

To say Herbert Armstrong was raised up by God is s...

2008-01-18T02:17:00.000+13:00

To say Herbert Armstrong was raised up by God is such a silly notion: Just follow the money.

The Dallas / Fort Worth area has much better airli...

2008-01-18T02:11:00.001+13:00

The Dallas / Fort Worth area has much better airline connections than Cincinnati, which is probably why UCG chose the site -- a sensible reasonable selection on paper at least -- but perhaps they should have raised the reasons to consciousness in the minds of the membership before launching, not that they need to know, mind you.