Comments on Ambassador Watch: Dumping Weinland: the first step

A lot of people say that Weinland's going to be mo...

2008-07-17T15:41:00.000+12:00

A lot of people say that Weinland's going to be moving on soon or that the house of cards is going to collapse but in my honest opinion I think Weinland willl drag this as close to "Christ's setting foot on earth" (which is now slated for 2012 i think)as he can, maybe even taking it past that. He has been quoted as saying that PKG would go on even after he has left the "church".

I think this whole thing is kind of funny. I don't...

2008-06-20T04:16:00.000+12:00

I think this whole thing is kind of funny. I don't fault the radio interviewers because you can hear in their voices how insane this guy really is, but it makes for interesting commentary.
Of course Weinland won't go back on any of those shows with any type of repentence. He will most likely "dust off his feet" and keep going on, to whomever will listen to him.

Hey, if Jim Jones could convince hundreds to "drink the cool-aid", then Weinland has a much easier task. The followers of Weinland may not drink literal poisoned cherry cool-aid, but they are taking slow sips that are truly shortening their own short lives by wasting their time with this charleton.

Oh, now Ron says it's "whatever God's timing is......

2008-06-17T08:45:00.000+12:00

Oh, now Ron says it's "whatever God's timing is..."

Convenient, that. Wonder if the two Witlesses made enough for the nice little retirement package they were after in the first place?

Encouraged by COGwriter's latest post, I'm listeni...

2008-06-15T16:04:00.000+12:00

Encouraged by COGwriter's latest post, I'm listening to Ron's June 14 sermon. Oh, we misunderstood. But if he is wrong, so was Revelation. 100 time-cycles...

I guess we also misundertood that 1972 was about Readers Digest - "You may have already won a trip to Petra!"

Oh, now Ron says it's "whatever God's timing is..."

Weinland also promised to return to the Mike McCon...

2008-06-13T03:01:00.000+12:00

Weinland also promised to return to the Mike McConnell show in mid-July or end of July to declare he and the little woman are "Mr. and Mrs. False Prophet" (McConnell's words).

Funny, the McConnell interviews aren't mentioned on Weinland's blog. Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder why that is??

In his last interview with British radio host Jame...

2008-06-13T02:50:00.000+12:00

In his last interview with British radio host James Whale, Ron said that if it was not obvious to the world by Pentecost or the end of July (okay, which is it? That is 6 weeks difference) that 1/3 of the US has been destroyed that he would step down from preaching and declare himself a false prophet. James Whale asked him if he would come back on his show and discuss it. I've written James Whale and asked him to invite Ron back to defend his position. I haven't heard back from him.
Please, let's send emails to James requesting that he follow up with Ron.

Did you notice that Ron Weinland deleted all his b...

2008-06-13T01:09:00.000+12:00

Did you notice that Ron Weinland deleted all his blog entries prior to April 18th? He blamed it on the reverse order of posts and the confusion it was causing some people. I think he is doing a little CYA housekeeping.
"What? I never said that!"

If we all pray for these folks, maybe God will cal...

2008-06-12T04:23:00.000+12:00

If we all pray for these folks, maybe God will call them out of their false churches.

Actually my question, more-appropriately-worded, s...

2008-06-12T01:46:00.000+12:00

Actually my question, more-appropriately-worded, should be "How many members will leave, now that it is past Pentecost?"

You're right about patience being a virtue, Richard. I am also a firm believer in shutting up once everything possible has been said.

We can lead the Witless' sheeple to water --- but we cannot, unfortunately, make them think for themselves unless they choose to.

The information is out there now. Will the sheeple have the eyes to see it? Who knows? It's out of my hands now.

If I were a believer or an agnostic, I would say it was in something else's hands now, but since I'm an atheist, I just say I've done all it is possible for me to do.

Have more members left since Pentecost?Now now, Pu...

2008-06-11T15:26:00.000+12:00

Have more members left since Pentecost?

Now now, Purple -- patience is a virtue. It's only about three days since Pentecost -- and there hasn't been a Sabbath service since then. They haven't even had a chance to be absent.

"It shows me that Satan can even use the truth to ...

2008-06-11T15:07:00.000+12:00

"It shows me that Satan can even use the truth to deceive."

As long as you choose to blame your wife's involvement in a cult on an imaginary boogey-man named Satan, then I would suggest that you are deceiving yourself.

The Apostate Paul

In life, nearly everyone is either a bully or whim...

2008-06-11T14:54:00.000+12:00

In life, nearly everyone is either a bully or whimp and sometimes both depending on the circumstances , ie, a bully at home but a whimp on the job etc.

Peace and enlightenment are found by being neither. Finding stillness and not feeding the ego by either being the dominant (bully) or the submissive (whimp).

The people in Weinlands cult, like many if not most human organizations, religious or otherwise generally enjoy the game of masochist and sadist.

Bill Lussenheide, Menifee, CA USA

Oh yes...and about 20% of the US population still...

2008-06-11T14:44:00.000+12:00

Oh yes...

and about 20% of the US population still strongly believe Mr. Bush is a good president. Almost all of these folks are deeply religious right-wingers.

About 40,000,000 folks!

so once again big deal...

"But surely even the densest, most unsophisticated...

2008-06-11T14:37:00.000+12:00

"But surely even the densest, most unsophisticated, wet-behind-the-ears individual would have enough gumption - assuming they can tie their own shoelaces - to see that Ronald Weinland now has zero credibility, and that they've been made to look fools as well."

Big deal... tens of millions of Evangelicals still follow Hagee, Dobson, Robertson, etc.

On TRUE NICENESS, GOODNESS, etc. Are greedy, lying...

2008-06-11T13:10:00.000+12:00

On TRUE NICENESS, GOODNESS, etc.

Are greedy, lying false prophets "nice" or "good"?

These days, it seems like everyone considers themselves--and every other monster of depravity--to be "nice" and "good." By current standards and definitions, Satan him?/her?/it?self could pass for "nice" or "good" or maybe even an angel of light. So, let us get away from such meaningless talk and get back to reality.

Truly nice people do NOT tell lies in God's name. They do NOT make up prophetic lies. Truly nice people are honest. They simply, humbly admit that God has not said anything to them. The habitual liars are a different story. To hear them tell it, God talks to them all the time--always revealing more and more prophetic error.

Truly nice people do NOT expect you to believe lies and nonsense. They do NOT threaten you with cancer or anything else for having some doubts about ridiculous prophetic lies.

Truly nice people do NOT expect you to hand over your money to help support them and their lying habit.

Truly nice people are NOT insane or utterly deceived about everything related to God. They do NOT have chemical imbalances in their brain and they do NOT suffer from demonic influences.

Truly nice people do NOT go around making the way of truth look like the way of idiots by adding their lies to what the Bible does say.

Truly nice people do NOT behave anything like most of the leaders in the WCG and its various splinter groups, especially the kooks who claim to be prophets.

Thought it was funny that Dave Pack played the Dem...

2008-06-11T12:14:00.000+12:00

Thought it was funny that Dave Pack played the Demon Card regarding his competition in the Two Witness sweepstakes.

Atta way to go Mister........ Dave.

Someone said:"In my opinion, I think Ron and his w...

2008-06-11T10:28:00.000+12:00

Someone said:

"In my opinion, I think Ron and his wife, Laura, are sincere. I believe they are genuinely deceived."

Then Gavin snorted with a churtle:

"Rubbish!"

Gavin, we have to remember that the Two Witnesses aren't the kind of Christians anyone would recognize. They are the Gestapo of the Lord.

These two will have to overide the entire sermon on the mount and many other sayings of Jesus in order to do their thing. They can harm the earth and smote humans anytime they wish and whomever they wish as often as they wish. They can even circle back and do it again and again until we love being in God's Church and Kingdom.

The Two Witnesses need to possess a certain cold and calculated style in being able to express the love of God thru the Revelation of Jesus in just this way. We're not talking "suffer the little children to come unto me" here. We're more like talkin, "let me make the little children suffer."

Actually, they have to be able to act as if there never was a Jesus of the Gospels. Their Lord and Master is a kickbutt psychopath who isn't turning any more cheek nor blessing the SOB's much less forgiving those that curse him.

These are war-christians wining hearts and minds through force, intimidation, overbearing power and sheer threat of annihilation and eternal damnation. Jeez..oops sorry, who wouldn't join the church with that kind of "bringing in the sheeves" program?

So Ron can indeed be sincere in wishing or warning of impending death, taking the bucks and being generally rude to the churches and the nations. It's what Witnesses do!

After the mob kills them in Jerusalem and they are taken up to heaven, I bet, in the Kingdom, they won't have any friends at all for all eternity! How could you trust them in Jesus name ever again?

It's not like they can ever sit at the Feast again and agree with the anything the nice Jesus says!

2008-06-11T10:09:00.000+12:00

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Anonymous wrote: "Also, Weinland makes statements ...

2008-06-11T08:37:00.000+12:00

Anonymous wrote: "Also, Weinland makes statements like "all of the church is asleep" and "I am not asleep so if you're with me you're one of the few special people of God."

This reminds me of what happened in my WCG church area when the congregation collapsed back in the mid-Nineties. We went from a congregation of about 80 in 1995, on a good day, to about 13 by
1998. In the summer of 1998, the church was adjourned.

Our WCG pastor, in a large city about 100 miles away, was made "dual career". Our little group was left to a local elder and his wife.

The local elder had theoretically become orthodox in his beliefs but he used many cult techniques. He was fond of telling people that they were not Christian and that the person needed to be obedient to him and his wife to be Christian.

He once stated from the pulpit "I have the Holy Spirit and if you do not agree with me then you are not converted." Oddly, most of the people the little congregation at the time, seemed to not even hear this alarming statement.

If you talked with this couple and agreed with something that they said, they would look at each other with this creepy smile and one would way "he/she understands!". It was as if they had the corner on some special knowledge required for salvation and that most people could not understand it. But if you did agree with them, then you a special person with "understanding."

In fact they just gave up one cult practice for another cult practice. WCG HQ in Pasadena let this pathology persist for about a decade and it pretty much destroyed any possibility of the WCG sustaining a congregation in our area after the reform in doctrine. The couple disinivited everyone who did not believe their line from their house church. Finally, a few years back, the couple resigned from the WCG to pursue their own interests.

But, the point is, this couple built a small congregation on this pathology. There were deceived people who saw this as real Christianity and there was nobody there to challenge this idea. Like Weinland's people. They fled from a lion and ran into a bear.

-- Neo

My wife is caught up with Weinland. The appeal to...

2008-06-11T07:18:00.000+12:00

My wife is caught up with Weinland. The appeal to her is not as much with his prophecies, but with his Biblically-based admonitions. It shows me that Satan can even use the truth to deceive. Also, Weinland makes statements like "all of the church is asleep" and "I am not asleep so if you're with me you're one of the few special people of God. Not only will you save your skin, but you will have great power as one of the few found pleasing to God." This is, of course, typical cult-building rhetoric that plays especially to the self-righteous.

Anonymous: Check your browser and virus scan setti...

2008-06-11T05:05:00.000+12:00

Anonymous: Check your browser and virus scan settings. I don't have any issues with this site from any computer I use.

Do you know that your blog produces pop-ups? They ...

2008-06-11T04:39:00.000+12:00

Do you know that your blog produces pop-ups? They are caught by my antivirus as virus threats. If it continues, I will stop visiting this site.

Just a few more words and we're done here:People w...

2008-06-11T04:23:00.000+12:00

Just a few more words and we're done here:

People with Weinland believe that they believe the Bible. They don't, of course, but they need to come to the accommodation that:

1) They've been committing idolatry according to Scriptural standards, if they even care about that sort of thing;

2) They are disobeying a direct order from Jesus Christ in Matthew 7:15 when he said "Beware of false prophets" -- and therefore need to repent of that sin;

3) They are not seeking the Will of God, but following a man;

4) They are deceiving themselves.

At minimum, if they can come to those realizations, and if they have the courage of their convictions, they will do the right thing and leave Ron Weinland behind.

Expecting them to become atheists immediately really isn't a viable solution and is extremely unhelpful.

And the best thing would be for others who have been with Uncle Ron to come here and share how they came out of it, because that would be the witness with the greatest credibility.

Gavin, I believe your real question is, "How do we...

2008-06-11T04:10:00.000+12:00

Gavin, I believe your real question is, "How do we help get people out of this cult?". That should be seen as a good thing. Most of us are sincerely appalled by the lingering stench of Armstrongism keeping people in slavery, and that, for no particularly good reason: People should wake up and smell the coffee, but they just stay with it and stay with it and stay with it. They just don't want to give up their addiction or they are afraid to do so.

It is only when it becomes so bad that there isn't much option left but to leave that they do.

However, there are a number of things which can be done to facilitate and speed up the process.

It's more complicated than it might seem.

One approach is the one we chose: Get a project manager, bring together former Directors, Secretaries, Treasurers and other church corporate officers, gather the facts and then work together with the project team to target the victims to get them free.

This sort of effort is resource intensive. It also takes a great deal of persistence, innovation and, especially, courage.

With the coxcult project, there was a significant danger associated with the effort. The cultmeister was a lot smarter and dangerous than Ron Weinland could ever hope to be. During the project, any number of websites were taken down to prevent the truth from getting out. The Painful Truth was taken out. Other websites were under significant threats. Some blogs went off the air. It took significant courage to stand up to the onslaught.

The project was finally rewarded when the cult leader shot himself in the foot. Christians: 80, Lions: 20. People who today find Ron Weinland an easy target folded up and stole away in fear and embarrassment. It wasn't a popular effort because of risk. It wasn't any fun.

The problem with attempting to assist people to find freedom is, first of all, they don't want it. The next challenge is that it can be dangerous. It is also difficult. Finally, it isn't all that much fun.

Efforts such as the current one to take down Uncle Ronnie, is easy and fun because it is infotainment. It's popular. Try something that isn't and watch while people abandon you. They might not even wish you good luck as they flee for their lives. They make it really clear that you embarrass them.

Sometimes that is what it takes. And the results will never be anywhere perfect. In the case of the coxcult project, yes, about 80 people left and about 20 are left, but most of the 80 people went off to form their own group with exactly the same belief system but without their Draconian Psychopath Leader. It has not even yet occurred to them that, in the words of Mark Lax, he "worships Satan, after all", that there might be something with the man made religion he created.

If people really want to make a difference, then they might just want to ask how a "successful" [semi-successful] project was run.

The suspicion here is though, that there isn't that much sincerity to people who claim they want to help others. They are in it for the emotional fulfillment of the entitlement of having their say and going their way, which may have benefit, but it will be, at best, minimal, and at worst, actually do victims harm.

As for the demons, these come not out but by praye...

2008-06-11T03:07:00.000+12:00

As for the demons, these come not out but by prayer and fasting.

Whether anyone believes Jesus or not, religious folk would do well to seek the Will of God -- if they believe that sort of thing -- well before they become involved in "The Sting" set up by such as Uncle Ron.