Comments on Ambassador Watch: Revisionist history

Just some corrections to the "Revisionist history"...

2007-12-01T12:45:00.000+13:00

Just some corrections to the "Revisionist history" blog that itself attempts some revisionist history of its own:

Mr. Meredith did not take the mailing list. It was secure in the bowels of GCG's password-protected computer system to which he had no access. The "mailing list" he used on the first letter warning the brethren of the Board's actions, was a hodge-podge of lists cobbled together from local lists assembled by loyal members already aware of what the GCG Board(particularly Salyer and Pack) was up to--the list was a true grass-roots phenomenon. You are all too wet on that one.

The post-Meredith Global board gutted Global by not making the cutbacks necessary to match the organization's expenses to its income--they mismanaged themselves into financial oblivion.

The default on the loans was therefore unneccessary, as the organization had sufficient funds to pay its creditors and continue--but at a reduced size fitting the reduced income. Again, mismanagement by the Global board.

There is some attrition due to death (mostly old age) and a few that go off on their own or after Mr. Bryce. However, a number of those that go off with the likes of Bryce return--as some did who originally followed the Global Board and who for a time fellowshipped in UCG. Mr. Bryce and the other detractors have had negligible effect. The baptism figure is accurate; the LCG is, surely to your great chagrin, expanding its reach and growing.

To paraphrase a quote by Mark Twain, reports of Living's demise have been greatly exaggerated (mostly by you).

For the person commenting on the millions reached by LCG's telecast, those numbers derive from Nielsen Ratings (of course, what do the Nielsen people know, they are only the foremost experts in the field).

Revisionist history indeed...

Jordan Potter said... I would say that religion an...

2007-11-28T09:28:00.000+13:00

Jordan Potter said...
I would say that religion and logical thinking doesn't go together.

"I would say that it dependeds on what religion we is talkings abouts."

I would say it doesn't matter. They are all like a cereal company:

They make fruit loops.

But, we is talking abouts Christendumb, the scourge of the planet for 2,000 years.

I would say that religion and logical thinking doe...

2007-11-27T12:40:00.000+13:00

I would say that religion and logical thinking doesn't go together.

I would say that it dependeds on what religion we is talkings abouts.

I would say that religion and logical thinking doe...

2007-11-27T05:06:00.000+13:00

I would say that religion and logical thinking doesn't go together.

From the Systematic and DidacticTeachings of St. T...

2007-11-26T06:48:00.000+13:00

From the Systematic and Didactic
Teachings of St. Thomas:

"My students must... possess the ability to think, logically."

Are you sure? This would appear to be
a highly counter-productive trait.

Byker Bob said:>>>While he probably imagines that ...

2007-11-25T07:58:00.000+13:00

Byker Bob said:

>>>While he probably imagines that some of us would now consider him to be Gamaliel, and wish to study at his feet, for all practical purposes he's now finished the self-demolition process, and has not one iota of credibility here.<<<

Probably images? Such an absurd thought, suggests that you're completely shrouded in darkness.

I would never accept a person with the name "byker bob" as a student. The name describes a person who exhibits reckless impetuosity; prone to capricious actions and lacking in creative thought.

My students must be sober, diligent, motivated and possess the ability to think, logically.

Stingerski said... Anon said:No, the 1st amendment...

2007-11-25T07:42:00.000+13:00

Stingerski said...
Anon said:

No, the 1st amendment was designed to protect the people from the church having the power of the state behind it to force people to obey the clergy . . .

So, do you agree then with the Federal govt. when they repeatedly violate the first amendment by prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

The federal govt. has not violated the fist amendment by prohibiting the free exercise of religion

"Little Susie can't pray in a public school classroom."

Yes, little Susie can pray in a public school, but, little Susie can't be forced to pray in a public school, there's a difference.

Douglas Becker said:>>>That a person would choose ...

2007-11-25T07:31:00.000+13:00

Douglas Becker said:

>>>That a person would choose to go with Rod Meredith speaks world to what that person is like: Mostly harsh and judgmental, without much kindness.<<<

You're constrained by folly to arrive at certain predetermined opinions, however ill-conceived they are.

The problem with LCG is that members are leaving o...

2007-11-25T06:18:00.000+13:00

The problem with LCG is that members are leaving out the back door faster than they are coming in the front. I came across this sermon from Mario Hernandez, a member of the LCG council of elders, where he states that the council addressed this concern in their November 2006 meeting. Apparently more members left in 2006 than came in in 2006. And this was BEFORE the Bryce fiasco. Here is the sermon link. Check out the 9 minute mark.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/eacb1b3d-53f8-4a94-ab7a-5426c819514e/Mario-Hernandez---June-2-2007
If the link doesn't work, go to esnips.com and search for Mario Hernandez, June 2 2007.

LochinvarI wouldn't use the term "crapology." Not ...

2007-11-24T14:49:00.000+13:00

Lochinvar

I wouldn't use the term "crapology." Not unless it's in the Consise Oxford. The underlying issues are important and, in my view, should be aired. But the particular emphasis that emerged in WCG was - my opinion again - reactive, unbalanced and perhaps ultimately irrelevant. Either end of the spectrum is a bit too monochrome for my tastes.

Old, New, Reconditioned or Pre-loved Covenants... Beware the one-stop, package deal, shrink-wrapped, mail order, faith in a box with preloaded platitudes (no refunds).

The new covenant crapology was only applicable to ...

2007-11-24T13:17:00.000+13:00

The new covenant crapology was only applicable to the WCG as opposed to legitimate Christianity to which the WCG cannot even come close.

I think it's a gas that Tom has finally had the co...

2007-11-24T13:14:00.000+13:00

I think it's a gas that Tom has finally had the courage to reveal himself as having been on the inside of the power structure in the ACOG movement.

But must admit that maybe we could have figured it out from his postings -- the same legalism, the same slander, the same arrogance, the same narcissism. On the other hand, we could have missed it because we've so much of it all around us that there was no particular defining distinction to distinguish him from any other cultmeister from which we should turn away.

That's a little harsh and judgemental without much...

2007-11-24T13:11:00.000+13:00

That's a little harsh and judgemental without much kindness...

Not really, particularly when TM has slandered and libeled people the same way that Roderick Meredith slandered and libeled people.

If you didn't know who was responsible for the comments here that TM made and the ones RM have made, particularly the Manpower Papers, could you really tell the difference.

But then sometimes the scoundrels hide out with the honorable anonymous.

I can understand why Joel Olsteen is growing. He ...

2007-11-24T12:44:00.000+13:00

I can understand why Joel Olsteen is growing. He offers messages of hope. People leave encouraged not like they have been been beaten down.

BTW, Paul is right; It is about power, money, not about caring for God's people.

I think it's a gas that Tom has finally had the co...

2007-11-24T11:40:00.000+13:00

I think it's a gas that Tom has finally had the courage to reveal himself as having been on the inside of the power structure in the ACOG movement.

While he probably imagines that some of us would now consider him to be Gamaliel, and wish to study at his feet, for all practical purposes he's now finished the self-demolition process, and has not one iota of credibility here.

BB

Well ya can't blame LCG for wanting to know which ...

2007-11-24T10:30:00.000+13:00

Well ya can't blame LCG for wanting to know which kids are demon possessed or prone to such and which are not. sheesh....

The LCG is using ministerial evaluation forms on i...

2007-11-24T10:25:00.000+13:00

The LCG is using ministerial evaluation forms on its youth. Meredith's Manpower Papers are utilized in today's LCG. Some people never change:

Therefore, please note that the original deadlines are no longer valid. If you or your son or daughter would like to attend camp, there is still time to apply for all three camps, but we urge you to apply ASAP, especially for the pre-teen camps in Texas and Missouri.

Note to Ministers (NOT to be read in services): We had a glitch in the LYC online registration system regarding the Ministerial Evaluations. If you tried to submit an evaluation and it failed, please try again. The system should now work. Also, please send in these evaluations ASAP, as it is important to let campers and staff know if they are accepted. Some will be flying to camp and airline fares can go up dramatically.—

"That a person would choose to go with Rod Meredit...

2007-11-24T10:00:00.000+13:00

"That a person would choose to go with Rod Meredith speaks world to what that person is like: Mostly harsh and judgmental, without much kindness.'

That's a little harsh and judgemental without much kindness...

" A man who had joined up with him in the early ni...

2007-11-24T09:18:00.000+13:00

" A man who had joined up with him in the early nineties stopped by WCG services while it was undergoing the new covenant crapology and made a pitch."

I would be interested to know if Gavin, our own dear blogmaster, agrees with Dougie on this. Do you, Gav? Do you think the new covenant is 'crapology'?

Lochinvar

"I also objected to this, as I don’t understand ho...

2007-11-24T09:16:00.000+13:00

"I also objected to this, as I don’t understand how one could excommunicate people, brand them enemies of the church, and then allow then to attend services?"

Because it's not about God, or spreading a message to the world. It's about money and power.

Paul

To which I add, Roderick Meredith is and always ha...

2007-11-24T08:54:00.000+13:00

To which I add, Roderick Meredith is and always has been a false prophet from the time he became a minister:

The Divine Dr.
M.

That a person would choose to go with Rod Meredith speaks world to what that person is like: Mostly harsh and judgmental, without much kindness.

I thoroughly understand the appeal of Meredith back when with Global. A man who had joined up with him in the early nineties stopped by WCG services while it was undergoing the new covenant crapology and made a pitch. It was really appealing, but the thing is, it was all about prophecy -- the man told me that Meredith was bringing back prophecy. Upon reflecting upon this and considering 1975 in Prophecy, which was fully fleshed out with false prophecies by Meredith in the Plain Truth in the Sixties, I decided not to change one bad cult for another -- at least at that time.

What didn't come out in the above posting is the documented lies for which the Rod of God plied to the Global congregations and divulged in the predecessor to The Journal: He flat out lied about submitting to the authority of his own board. He did the very unchristian thing of bankrupting his own church because of his ego.

In the aftermath, he allowed the idolatry of McNair bowing down and worshipping him with tears, begging to be allowed to remain.

He was also responsible for the meetings outlined by the Manpower Papers -- slandering students of AC. No mentor or helper of our joy there.

After seeing the lies, deceptions, false prophecies and the decidedly unChristian behavior, I concluded for myself that Roderick Meredith is no saint and the instructions of II Timothy 3 for someone so loving of himself, heady, highminded, full of betrayal, that the best thing to do was from such to turn away and let the chips fall where they may.

It is impossible to take the man seriously, except for the seriousness of his crimes against the brethren and in the broader sense, humanity.

Gavin said:>>>The brave attempt to see Meredith of...

2007-11-24T07:57:00.000+13:00

Gavin said:

>>>The brave attempt to see Meredith off occurred nine years ago, and to mark the occasion Bob Thiel has posted a little revisionist account of the event. Rod is the noble hero, along with his boot-licking cabal. LCG, Bob tells us, has had 2,600 baptisms since then.<<<

I am very familiar with the events leading up to the break-up of Global in 1998. The gang of four, consisting Larry Sayler, Norbert Link, Edwin Pope and Raymond McNair, with support of Colin Adair and a few other rogues, conspired to change to bye- laws of Global to remove Meredith, because they didn't like Meredith solely setting the agenda for the church.

Meredith fought them all the way, but in the end, the bye law changes gave the gang of four the legal right to remove board members. So after Carl McNair, and if I remember correctly, Mrs. Meredith were removed. Meredith finally realised that the gang's plot was to hijack the church, and oust him. So he left and started LCG, as the gang then had the legal right to the Global name.

At the time of the break-up of Global, I was attending with Global UK. The local elder and his cohort, who was ordained a deacon by Colin Adair, supported the gang of four. As a consequence, I left Global and attended with LCG until the end of FOT 2000.

I was invited by Carl McNair to join LCG's UK board, and was asked to oversee 3 video groups, including the largest group in London. I met both Carl McNair and Dr. Meredith at board meetings. In 1999 was LCG UK coordinator for FOT in Scotland, and was with Bob League at the 2000 FOT in Barbados, where I gave several sermons, including the sermon on the Last Great Day.

However, it would take me too long to say why I left LCG. Suffice to say, I objected to Dr. Meredith employing Richard Ames, who remained 18 months in WCG, as the pastor of the Glendora congregation, and never once told that congregation that he disagreed with Tkach's doctrinal changes. In addition, Dr. Meredith and Carl McNair signed an ecclesiastical determination, excommunicating the gang of four, and branding them enemies of the church. Yet to placate Carl, Meredith allowed Raymond to return to LCG, with an undisclosed salary. I also objected to this, as I don’t understand how one could excommunicate people, brand them enemies of the church, and then allow then to attend services?
Furthermore, Dr. Meredith considers himself HWA’s natural successor, and even though he doesn’t say so openly, he makes the case by stating how well knew HWA and closely he worked with him over the years. Apart from Meredith’s self commendation, he still clings to most of the doctrinal errors of the old WCG. Many of these doctrinal errors can be found on Bob Thiel’s web site, which is replete with heretical opinions.

when Ted finally left CGI, a number of "faithful f...

2007-11-24T05:26:00.000+13:00

when Ted finally left CGI, a number of "faithful followers" went with him....and as soon as he was in the ground they started fighting amongst themselves and split into several groups....(I'm sure money played a significant part in the disputes)

sadly, I see no reason to doubt the same will happen when Rod begins his dirt nap.....such is the way of the personality driven religions.

But, but, but! Hey wait just one minute! Living has a name that is alive but it is dead, particularly after the shootings, so according to Revelation 3, it is the Sardis Era of the church and will continue until Jesus returns!

The Philadelphia and Laodocean Eras have yet to appear!

You just can't argue with the Prophecies of the Bible!

when Ted finally left CGI, a number of "faithful f...

2007-11-24T05:18:00.000+13:00

Anon said:No, the 1st amendment was designed to pr...

2007-11-24T04:40:00.000+13:00

Anon said:

No, the 1st amendment was designed to protect the people from the church having the power of the state behind it to force people to obey the clergy . . .

So, do you agree then with the Federal govt. when they repeatedly violate the first amendment by prohibiting the free exercise of religion?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Anon said:

When you get right down to it, religion interfering in the making of state lsws caused the Civil War.

Actually, slavery is way, way down on the list as to any of the causes of the War Between the States. Most Northerners favored slavery, as can be shown from the records. They were not about to go and fight to free a slave population that later could come north and compete for their jobs.

The root cause of the War was money. (No surprise there.) And it was the money going to the North via a very high import tariff that was starving the South of resources. This is akin to states like Massachusetts getting back $2.70 on their fed dollar for highway construction, while states like Florida only get $0.60 back. (And the last time I looked, the population shift was definitely in Florida's direction.)

Nor were the northern industrialists in any mood to watch an increasingly industrializing South start to compete with their interests. They had a good thing going and they intended to keep it that way. A little warfare was good for business too.

Lincoln, who was beholden to such interests, was also very much a Nationalist, and had no tolerance for the states rights issue. Which is how he also got away with helping the first income tax being passed, and the suspension of habeas corpus during the War. And the 30,000 or so Northerners who were locked away in jail with no trail were witness to that.

But I digress. States rights is a dead issue now. Which is why the almighty federal govt. continues to violate our Constitution on a regular basis. The very people who have sworn to uphold our Constitution make a mockery of it. Little Susie can't pray in a public school classroom. But she CAN receive in that same classroom state funded birth control, and even directions to the nearest state funded abortuary should she choose such, even against the wishes of her parents.

The camel's nose (of the state) got under the tent of religion decades ago. And now it is trying to either take over that tent, or destroy it all together.