Comments on Ambassador Watch: Genesis Genetics

It should be noted that the latest technique that ...

2007-09-04T16:52:00.000+12:00

It should be noted that the latest technique that Dr. Hare and Dr. Babiak use to determine psychopaths in the business environment is the PCL which is derived by interviewing people who know the subject.

In effect, people around the psychopath identify him to the researchers -- so the people pretty much identify the psychopath themselves.

It doesn't take a genius or years of professional ...

2007-09-04T10:08:00.000+12:00

It doesn't take a genius or years of professional training to identify the behavior of a psychopath, but it does take some seasoning to differentiate among several different disorders which actually include a spectrum ranging from bipolar disease and schizophrenia [people with mental illnesses can act irrationally leaving people with the impression they are sociopaths, but are not], alcoholics, drug abusers and narcissists.

While it is useful to have the Psychopathic Checklist, it is not necessary to have to assess the kinds of inappropriate behaviors which need to be addressed in a particular manner.

If we can't identify the collective destructive behaviors of individuals we encounter and must rely upon experts [most of the time we would have to pay, or would not consider being hired by us, or worse, hired by the psychopath (using our resources) against us], then we are helpless victims, useless sitting ducks.

Many times, you can identify objectionable behavior and formulate the appropriate response. It is helpful to get in the ballpark with diagnostic tools to make wise selections, but it isn't always necessary to have an excruciatingly detailed clinical analysis by qualified experts.

In fact, if that were the case, a lot of people will just die before the specific label can be attached to the person creating the havoc.

It is useless to listen to people who tell you that you cannot know without experts to tell you and you can't take action.

Haven't we had all too much of that in the Worldwide Church of God under Herbert Arsetrom who convinced us he was the expert, to look to him, when he was indeed the source of the problem?

"I've had my run ins with that same person, but fe...

2007-09-04T08:52:00.000+12:00

"I've had my run ins with that same person, but feel as if you might be misdiagnosing here."

Perhaps. But when you see the same pattern post after post it begins to give away one's sickenss. In her case she never contributed a single original thought to that forum. Her only purpose just like a psychopath was to get people riled up and she never answered a single honest question. The fact that she follows Ron Dart says it all, another true narcissist in the spirit of Armstrong.

I've had my run ins with that same person, but fee...

2007-09-04T06:41:00.000+12:00

I've had my run ins with that same person, but feel as if you might be misdiagnosing here.

The mere asking of questions doth not alone make a psychopath. Often a child will bury you in questions. Socrates, and the Socratic method involved the asking of a series of questions to lead one to a greater truth.

To diagnose accurately requires years of study and actual practice.

Douglas said:"One of the strategies of a psychopat...

2007-09-03T11:54:00.000+12:00

Douglas said:

"One of the strategies of a psychopath is to flood you with question and for every question you feel forced to answer, there will be 100 more immediately, so you will be completely swamped. Remember that the psychopath will keep you defensive and on overload when he decides to activate his manipulations."

I ran over & over into this same psychopathic type (in this case a female) over on the Alumni fourm. She would never answer any question directly - except with another question of her own. We could not even get this sick mind to agree that, by following Ron Dart that she was also following GTA (Dart was his water boy), and ultimately, the Herbster himself.

It can now be revealed:John B has just posted my a...

2007-09-03T08:40:00.000+12:00

It can now be revealed:

John B has just posted my article for the 10th anniversary of the Painful Truth on the
Contempt page.

It is similar to what we have been discussing here on the off topic topic of psychopaths.

It is OK to be alone...But, but, but! In Genesis i...

2007-09-03T08:34:00.000+12:00

It is OK to be alone...

But, but, but!

In Genesis it says that it is not good for man to be alone!

[I'm just being ironic here.]

Yes, that's right: Proverbs says that a wife is a blessing from the Lord.

The blessing being keeping him humble by telling him all the things that are wrong with him.

So much for the perfecting of the saints!

are there any studies that indicate a psychopath c...

2007-09-03T08:30:00.000+12:00

are there any studies that indicate a psychopath can be cured – can a psychopath reform?

There isn't a lot of hope in this regard. Psychopaths don't want to change. There's no incentive. They like things just the way they are.

My personal experience is that I worked hard for an employee who worked for me when I was a manager. He admitted to me that he went out and beat up other men severely and that he had never been caught, mostly because the men feared him so much. He had been a winner of high school regional wrestling championship. I worked with him to develop his vocabulary and worked to get him off of alcohol because he was an alcoholic. After 18 months of work and what looked to be some progress, he couldn't resist temptation any longer and reverted. He once told me, "It's so easy". What he meant was that it was easy to assess people and manipulate them. In the aftermath, he did rather nasty things to me and I lost my job partly as a result of having any contact with him. It was a very painful but useful lesson.

Less useful were the lessons I learned with my encounter with a psychopath in the Worldwide Church of God who made it to the front page of the Seattle Times with his scams. Charming and rotten to the core. One man in church said he would follow him to the grave and afterward followed him into a church he founded based on the WCG.

Then the psychopath who murdered people in the Bellevue, Washington Church of God -- fortunately imprisoned, but not before he ruined the lives of teens in the church who were also convicted of murder later on. One of the teens wanted to join him in prison. Many people suffered for a lot of years. And get this, Chuck actually showed me his loaded revolver in the rented hall after Sabbath Services. The interesting thing was, that as in most cases with the psychopath, he said at one point, "she made me do it" after he had killed the church member because she wouldn't consider marrying him.

The bottom line is that it just isn't worth trying to reform them and they will end up doing you damage if you try to.

Such people are not doomed from birth. There are three factors involved and the critical stage of life is adolescence. There must be a trauma.

As for whether they have a future and can make it into The Kingdom of God -- if we are to believe Scripture -- that would be an open question. The Bible clearly shows that we should deny the power of God. However, Scripturally speaking, if we look at Satan the Devil as the ultimate psychopath, as evil as they come, the answer might well be not to our liking. Liars will not be admitted into the Kingdom of God, based on Revelation 22. Some psychopaths are also "dogs" as described in Revelation and they certainly won't make it.

Beyond an initial expressed desire to repent, the long term motives must be considered because, with a psychopath, it will be the easiest path of resistance that they will follow -- and remember, these people are easily bored.

People find it hard to believe they have a psychopath in their midst. Sometimes it is because of family ties, as it was with the case of the psychopath attending the CCg at one point. No one wanted to deal with it, even after I warned the local elder about the situation. The psychopath always manages to make it 'inconvenient' for people to deal with him. And by the way, I'm not referring to the leader of the CCg: That's a separate issue.

As a final note, four years back or so, I quickly noted a young psychopath attending United in Tacoma. He quickly had the minister's ear and they were best buddies, even though, if you listened to what he said and saw what he did, it would be totally inappropriate behavior. He kept talking about helping his kid he had out of wedlock, how he was looking for his next job [he was a telemarketer at the time]. After I left the scene, it wasn't clear what damage he did to the teens in church with whom he had made friends. I tried to warn folks, but they liked him and my protests fell on deaf ears. It's amazing how the psychopath has more credibility than the ones who tell the truth, but then, fools only listen to what they want to hear.

After all that is said and done, people are fascinated by psychopaths and many people see them as sympathetic figures. And after all that is said and done, it would not be inappropriate to treat them like one would treat a Cobra.

Hi Doug,"All of these problems and more are extant...

2007-09-03T08:03:00.000+12:00

Hi Doug,

"All of these problems and more are extant in the church of gods. Objectively recognizing it and dispassionately abandoning being victimized as quickly as possible is the only effective way to ever heal."

You and Job are saying much the same things...

Job 21:7-13 "Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?
(8) Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
(9) Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.
(10) Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf.
(11) They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
(12) They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
(13) They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.

You are absolutely right, you have to leave a culture and an organization that perpetuates abuse. You can not stay there and be normal.

And once you're on your own; you can still worship, you can still keep Sabbath, you can still keep Holy Days, and you can still do good to your fellow man and woman.

It is OK to be alone...

Gospel of Thomas (49) "Jesus said, 'Congratulations to those who are alone and chosen, for you will find the kingdom. For you have come from it, and you will return there again.'"

Douglas Becker said... Don't blame me. Blame Dr. R...

2007-09-03T07:53:00.000+12:00

Douglas Becker said...
Don't blame me. Blame Dr. Robert Hare for his darned study of psychopaths as documented in "Without Conscience".

I am not blaming you in any way. Certainly the description of a psychopath I could fit to a number of people, both in and outside the churches of God.

My point was if there really is this high a percentage of psychopaths around (and I am not saying there isn’t – I don’t know - as you said Dr Hare did the study, not me or you), are there any studies that indicate a psychopath can be cured – can a psychopath reform? After all if the best advice is to avoid them, there is a whole lot of people to avoid.

Anyone that considers they are a Christian would also ask the question has such a person a future, or are they somehow doomed from birth?

I am only asking the questions, (and I do actually mean them sincerely incidentally). I haven’t read the book, but probably will buy it and give it a read.

Can you seriously say that ‘psychopaths are not ev...

2007-09-03T05:43:00.000+12:00

Can you seriously say that ‘psychopaths are not even human’, and disregard such an apparently large segment of ‘humanity’?

Don't blame me. Blame Dr. Robert Hare for his darned study of psychopaths as documented in "Without Conscience".

With that number surely it’s not good enough just ...

2007-09-03T05:42:00.000+12:00

With that number surely it’s not good enough just to classify them as ‘aliens’ and ‘non-humans’.

Pray, do tell, what would be better?

Anyway, there are as many or more illegal aliens in this country, many from Mexico and others from Canada.

Come to think of it though, some of them are psychopaths. I should know. My son-in-law was a "coyote".

Herbert W. Armstrong was a good Republican...I hav...

2007-09-03T05:36:00.000+12:00

Herbert W. Armstrong was a good Republican...

I have noted often that the ministers of the various church of gods are Republicans and dog owners. It represents a mind set which is a result of being dominated and manipulated by a psychopath for so long.

You are correct, of course, when you point out that there are psychopaths embedded in our government and legal system. One only need look at "Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work" by Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Paul Babiak to extend the known range of the psychopath to business, academia and religion as well. In fact, the video "The Corporation" posits the notion that corporations themselves fill the requirements of the Psychopathic Check List (PCL) well enough to qualify as Psychopaths as not having empathy and having no conscience. Anyone conversant with "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall will have a responsive chord struck.

More to the point, it is now clear that Herbert Armstrong was a psychopath and under Occam's Razor it is the simplest / best explanation for the observable phenomena of the church of gods: Chaos and the destruction of people's lives. For some time I was personally ambivalent about the topic because Herbert Armstrong had a substantial vocabulary whereas most psychopaths studied do not. A high vocabulary develops the higher functions of the cortex and masks some of the symptomatic behavior of the psychopath. Nevertheless, his lack of empathy was well documented, his penchant for playing games is obvious and his incest, divorce, false prophecies, his manipulations and machinations make his lack of conscience clear enough.

There are consequences of the sort that we see above in the postings to this particular off topic topic:

- I lost my husband
- [I lost] my income
- [I lost] my status
- [I lost] my friends
- [I lost] my home
- [I lost] my identity
- ultimately - [I lost] my children
- I suffered!
- it was time to go into a cave and examine everything for myself, be true to myself, and "work out my own salvation with fear and trembling."
- I might add blood, sweat and tears - lots and lots and oceans of tears!
- [I had] to leave something which so captured your idealism and soul, then totally raped your innocence and spirit.
- It's a wonder any of us survived

This is not an atypical example of the response to the workings of a psychopath. Psychopaths ruin lives. Most often, psychopaths ruin lives financially, yet another symptom of the involvement of a psychopath. Everyone suffers tragically.

Psychopaths are attracted to rapid change. It gives them the opportunity to hide in the chaos. They don't do so well in stable environments because they are more difficult to manipulate. It is to the advantage of the psychopath to destabilize people's lives to better manipulate them to play games.

Hare and Babiak posit ways of dealing with psychopaths as follows: 1) stay off their radar; 2) make certain that you work hard, are above reproach and build a solid reputation. Unfortunately, this advice is too simplistic to deal with psychopaths effectively.

Derived from long experience there are limited ways to deal with psychopaths:

1) kill them off [or let them die] -- not an option in most cases;
2) Overpower them with excessive force and bind their powers so they can't be used;
3) Stay off their radar and don't make yourself a person of interest;
4) Never -- and I mean NEVER -- fall for the proposition that you can get something for nothing;
5) When you feel defensive or are on the verge of apologizing for nothing you did wrong, be suspicious and don't yield to the temptation;
6) Build a team to counter the psychopath [this worked well for the coxcult project];
7) Be above reproach by working harder and smarter, achieving an impeccable reputation;
8) Make it in the interest of the psychopath to go bother someone else;
9) Find ways of making yourself very unattractive as a target to the psychopath;
10) Expose them for all you are worth [bad in the short term, good in the long term];
11) Follow process and don't be tempted to take shortcuts;
12) Reject crap immediately and openly each and every time it pops up without apology;
13) Never try to outwit the psychopath: They will take it as a challenge to play games with you;
14) Turn the tables and learn the weaknesses of the psychopath and use their weaknesses against them;
15) Say no.

As for the last one, that is a suggestion from John B at the Painful Truth. However, you should be aware that the psychopath is smart enough that he might not have the predicted response of anger. It is just as likely that he will make you a laughingstock. One of the strategies of a psychopath is to flood you with question and for every question you feel forced to answer, there will be 100 more immediately, so you will be completely swamped. Remember that the psychopath will keep you defensive and on overload when he decides to activate his manipulations.

As for #14, be aware that the weaknesses that most psychopaths share is that they are usually terrible with follow up, particularly when boring work is involved. They like to take shortcuts. They trust in their own ability to triumph over others in every single situation. They seldom have the ability to remain consistent [their thoughts are formed independently in different regions of the brain and are self-conflicting]. They hate anything that appears boring to them. Most of all, they hate being exposed. I once observed a rather violent reaction to my snide remark to a psychopath that he "get in touch with his inner psychopath". Such a suggestion is supremely aggravating to a psychopath.

Be aware that when you are a target that is a potential threat, the first thing a psychopath will do is work behind the scenes to ruin your reputation by betraying you to the highest and widest audience possible.

Never trust a psychopath.

Never be vulnerable to a psychopath.

Never let a psychopath use your empathy against you, nor fall prey of wanting to be reasonable and make sense by rationalizing and trying to understand what the psychopath is feeling or trying to do. It is a useless endeavor. These strategies will only bring harm to you.

When it comes to psychopaths, we are all at war with them. There can be no surrender and they take no prisoners. They ruin people. It is all a game to them.

Expected responses: Disdain. Contempt. Slander. Trivialization. Factless attacks.

It's all to be expected: The one to two percent of the population would rather remain anonymous. [In prison, 40%. In business, who can say? Above the supervisor level, more than 50% likely, given that a corporation is itself a psychopath.] Worse are those who cannot be detected easily: The psychopath by day: The CEO that pollutes the land, water, air and minds of the people without it bothering his conscience one bit, and then goes home to recycle. It is a result of a very unhealthy practice: Compartmentalization. Much more harm is possible because there aren't the typical profiles associated with the PCL, since after dark they become normal people again. Mostly. Sometimes.

Psychopaths aren't the only danger, of course. Non psychopathic narcissists do a lot of collateral damage because they do not care. Narcissistic sources are damaging because they must fulfill the obnoxious needs of a narcissist by victimizing other people to get them. Alcoholics and drug abusers create damage and chaos, not to mention commit manslaughter on many occasions as opportunity arises. And the mentally ill are often problematic without intending to be so.

All of these problems and more are extant in the church of gods. Objectively recognizing it and dispassionately abandoning being victimized as quickly as possible is the only effective way to ever heal.

And remember these wise words lest you are tempted to seek out becoming a victim again as many people do: "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you".

If 1% to 2% of the population is in the category ‘...

2007-09-03T05:26:00.000+12:00

If 1% to 2% of the population is in the category ‘psychopath’, that is a gigantic number, e.g. up to 6 million in the USA alone!

With that number surely it’s not good enough just to classify them as ‘aliens’ and ‘non-humans’.

Can you seriously say that ‘psychopaths are not even human’, and disregard such an apparently large segment of ‘humanity’?

"I am pleased to say that all of my now grown and ...

2007-09-03T04:37:00.000+12:00

"I am pleased to say that all of my now grown and married children are healing also and none of them are affiliated with any schits or splisms of what was WCG, although their father still is."

That's great that your children are now free, and I hope everything is well with you. A very inspiring story you have.

Paul

"That is because psychopaths are not well understo...

2007-09-03T04:09:00.000+12:00

"That is because psychopaths are not well understood. Interestingly enough, you go on to prove the point."

You use the term "psychopath" to broadly. Governments and business are often dominated by this type of personality.

Today they like to call themselves "compassionate conservatives".

To stop/control them one must change the political and legal system.

That is why our Democracy was created.

Even with political and legal protections, there is on going effort to take away our freedoms.

Herbert W. Armstrong was a good Republican...

I could not disagree more!!!It is because psychopa...

2007-09-03T02:30:00.000+12:00

I could not disagree more!!!

It is because psychopaths are not well understood.

Interestingly enough, you go on to prove the point.

"It would be all so much more simple if everyone c...

2007-09-02T18:37:00.000+12:00

"It would be all so much more simple if everyone could understand that what we suffered was not a religious experience, but merely an encounter with yet another psychopath.

Once you know their trick, they are all boringly the same down to the detail level."

I could not disagree more!!!

What those in Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping fundamentalist groups suffer is due to what the New Testament and Old Testament teaches.

These books set the rules and they allow a group of men to rule over and control people.

People believe they are compelled to obey; they believe they must obey these men because that it is what the "word of God" teaches.

That is what caused the Dark Ages.
That is what caused the murder of millions of innocents.

It was only when society stopped believing that the Western world emerged from the Dark Ages.

A more recent example of myth overlayed on an actu...

2007-09-02T18:00:00.001+12:00

A more recent example of myth overlayed on an actual location and historical setting is the "inspired" Book of Mormon.

Shows how a pack of fantastical lies can flow from narcissistic religious fanatics .

And, as an added bonus, just like Muhammad, Joseph Smith & "Bring-'em Young" got all kinds of access to plenty of young chicks - one of the side perks of being a prophet.

It would be all so much more simple if everyone co...

2007-09-02T18:00:00.000+12:00

It would be all so much more simple if everyone could understand that what we suffered was not a religious experience, but merely an encounter with yet another psychopath.

Once you know their trick, they are all boringly the same down to the detail level.

This is Been There, Done That responding one last ...

2007-09-02T17:31:00.000+12:00

This is Been There, Done That responding one last time only because of the vituperative language from people who are supposedly here to help people with this painful transition and healing process.

I am anonymous because I am protecting the names of those whose responsibility it is to reveal themselves. Personally, I am a very open person. And I am quite sure you would be very interested in who I was (I do not say "am" because I really am not that person any more).

But, just for the record, I was an evangelist's wife, a three-year AC student, and left long before "the split" and others began leaving. It was a very difficult and brave thing to do, but I had to answer to my conscience.

I lost my husband, my income, my status, my friends, my home, my identity and ultimately my children, the unkindest cut of all - all in the name of God. Believe me I suffered! I had truly loved the church and the people I had come to know so well. But if I didn't believe - and I didn't - then it was time to go into a cave and examine everything for myself, be true to myself, and "work out my own salvation with fear and trembling." I might add blood, sweat and tears - lots and lots and oceans of tears!

I really was a True Believer. I had to confront this "god person" about all the things I had seen, been taught, believed and it was a fearful exercise, let me tell you! I had to put the Bible in perspective, which led to a greater appreciation for it as history, mythology, allegory, poetry - but not the word of God, whoever "god" is. Whatever people want him to be, that's who. Nothing or no one is more anthropomorphized!

I am now an atheist I suppose, perhaps a pantheist, though I don't need a title. And I don't need support but I do offer it at other, more appropriate places now that nearly 30 years have passed and I am so over it. I know in the very depth of my being how very hard it is to leave something which so captured your idealism and soul, then totally raped your innocence and spirit. It's a wonder any of us survived, much less went on to thrive. In that spirit I came to this site.

If God is Love and you believe in God, then there is something definitely lacking in many of these posts. I am reminded of this: and they, comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

I fail to see how hairsplitting, endless argument over trivia, counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin and the like helps to "heal" anyone. I also fail to see how this squares with Christ's teachings, which I still believe are phenomenal. I believe an examination will reveal a word or too about this activity to which I object.

And, just for the record also, I only visited and posted just that once, because an old acquaintance thought I might enjoy the site. I didn't. I left the sandbox decades ago and I suggest that there is a great big, wonderful world of other, more meaningful things to learn and do, and energies to explore. It's only scary at first and it is very rewarding. Know thyself, the first step toward wisdom.

As for neglecting my family for the church, that is something I never did and one of the many reasons I left because I believe family comes first. I did everything in my power to advocate that as a minster's wife for the people of the church over whom I had any influence whatsoever. And I set an example.

I am pleased to say that all of my now grown and married children are healing also and none of them are affiliated with any schits or splisms of what was WCG, although their father still is. I think we are a rather amazing group of females. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course.

I wish you all well and I truly mean that.

~Carol

"Anyone wants to email me, feel free. DennisCDiehl...

2007-09-02T13:03:00.000+12:00

"Anyone wants to email me, feel free. DennisCDiehl@aol.com Always enjoy a good freebie cell phone chat after 7 EST too. I can give you a cell number by email if you wish. Now experience tells me no one will get in touch..ha."

Hi Dennis,

I come by AW only occasionally. When I do it is always good to see your name. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Those of us with the WCG experience share a great deal. May God help us all heal and may we work to help one another heal.

At times I need to let it ALL go; I have to stay away from anything that has to do with the old WCG and the current Churches of God.

I have to stay away from any and all fundamentalist Christianity.

That is the only way I can heal. It is the only way I can remember and discover anew what is normal. I am in the midst of one of those times...

Do take care. :)

The above e-mail looks so much like most of the 50...

2007-09-02T11:44:00.000+12:00

The above e-mail looks so much like most of the 500 spam e-mails I received this past week....

The experience with Herbert Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God is one which makes no sense to a normal person with empathy. Over and over again, a person will attempt to make sense out of a situation which makes no sense at all. What needs to be acknowledged first is that the experiences are beyond the comprehension of most normal people because they cannot grasp that the sociopath has no empathy whatsoever. No behavior is accompanied with any empathy for others; neither is it accompanied with any guilt whatsoever.

What cannot and should not be ignored is the research of Dr. Robert Hare. When he was sharing his data with his adviser, his adviser thought that the brainwave patterns of psychopaths were faked: "These are not human brainwaves" he said.

People like Herbert Armstrong and many of his cronies are alien with different brainwaves than the rest of humanity, and, in that sense are not human. When each of us attempts to cope with such "beings" it must be recognized that we are not dealing with humans, but aliens which we cannot really comprehend because our own feelings, emotions, conscience and our self-imposed limitations to prevent negative behaviors we perceive to harm others. Our feelings, empathy and emotions get in the way of understanding the psychopath.

A psychopath’s lack of empathy means their actions are unconstrained. Regardless of whom they hurt in the process they are left without guilt. They not only don't care, they are uninhibited by emotional baggage by the harm they do to others. No remorse is forthcoming when you exist in the absence of empathy. Empathy is the emotion that generates the feelings of guilt. No empathy, no guilt. When you relate to others with an assumption that they will not do an act because of the corresponding sense of guilt that you believe will accompany it, you need to think twice.

After contact with a psychopath, your mind marches on with its quest to make sense of it all. When the relationship ends, your mind has the desire to understand, learn and grow from the experience. Your emotions contribute to this life changing experience from a personal standpoint as well as from your the psychopath's position. Your mind’s discovery process includes how you feel, how they feel and how to adjust for your future.

Once your mind completes its full investigation and reaches the same conclusion it drifts into the future. You have successfully closed that chapter. This mental closure is necessary in order to build other, more appropriate, relationships.

Unfortunately, many do not reach mental closure and they find themselves dwelling in the past. This dwelling might be your mind’s way of attempting to make some sense of a situation that may make no sense at all. The “what ifs” continually bombard your mind taking it down dead end roads. Over and over you find yourself where you started – no closure in sight.

Behaviors are driven by desire. Desires can be wrapped or unwrapped in emotion. Some dwellers on this earth were not born with emotional wrapping. Without wrapping their behaviors are out of sorts with those finely wrapped in emotion. This absence allows them to move on without mental closure. They are purely desire driven with no sense of loss.

You on the other hand have a great sense of loss. This sense dictates how you feel and predicts how they feel to provide you with some reasoning for your next move. Problem is your next move will have little effect on a psychopath you encounter, if they have no emotional attachment then, now or ever. They simply move on, and you simply don’t.

The psychopath is a a desire center in absence of empathy, which is why he [or she] did not call, verbally demeaned you, demonstrated no interest in your feelings, blamed you for everything, was self promoting, required approval in every move you made, isolated you from your friends and family, had you waiting on them and gave back nothing, constantly tried to change you with no adjustments on their part, exploded inappropriately, accused you of things you did not do. Their fan club was out of touch with who they really are and they always leave you with your own list of mean spirited behaviors they exhibited.

This forum and others has helped many people explore their world in a quest of discovery. Most of it is centered on "why?" and sometimes "how?". To come to understand that you simply never mattered to the psychopath and what he did to you was mostly collateral damage is a painful realization. Working through that realization takes great time and some small effort. We all want to adapt because we want to make sense of our experiences, but since the behavior of a psychopath makes no sense in the human realm, there is no rational conclusion anyone can come to using feelings, emotions and empathy.

Each of us, in this self-discovery, must achieve a higher realm: Data, logic and facts, all gained dispassionately and objectively. In this particular case, Herbert Armstrong never cared, he had no empathy and for all the collateral damage he did with his visionary approaches embodying no foresight or real planning, he simply had no guilt. He never even knew most of the people in the church who loved him. He was incapable of love and caring. He used people's feelings to manipulate them to get what he wanted: Money, power, and, especially, prestige. He wanted to be somebody. He was supported in his quest by people who he believed were nothings. He sought out Kings and Prime Ministers as befitting his lofty position as the Prime Minister End Apostle of our time. In the end, his lack of planning led to chaos and he left a mess for others to clean up after him, as he always did. He never thought it was his problem -- it was always ours.

It takes time to process this, but the sooner we all come to the conclusion that we have something he could never have, and that it is an advantage to us, in spite of all its pitfalls, the better off we will be.

Psychopaths are nothing -- empty selves looking for a mirror to see who they are. Those of us who have empathy don't need them and they are beneath us.

Psychopaths are not even human.

And we are.

2007-09-02T11:33:00.000+12:00

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Dennis, I fully understand the need to drop out of...

2007-09-02T10:08:00.000+12:00

Dennis, I fully understand the need to drop out of the loop for a while and refocus. There are few ex-COG commentators who can pass the 5 year mark without burnout. Remember David Covington? Gary Scott is the latest in a long line, and I had to do the same for six months after pulling the original AW site. You really need to be a bit compulsive to throw time and energy at something you get a lot of flak over.

But I think there's something positive in playing the role of the little kid in "The Emperor's New Clothes." I hear some folk say it's like beating your head against a brick wall, but I can't agree with that.

What is interesting about this blog is the difference in "demographic" between the small group of people who feel comfortable regularly posting comments here and the much larger group who read it (and vote in the polls). I keep thinking back to my final months in WCG - very defensive indeed, but when the "right moment" came, all the things I was in denial over came back and helped me restructure my life. Those troubling facts were like floating mines, and eventually - despite myself - they hit their mark.

I really appreciate the input you've made, and I know lots of others do too.