Comments on Ambassador Watch: The Haj

Byker Bob wrote: "So, it's time to move ...

2009-10-04T05:51:25.718+13:00

Byker Bob wrote:
"So, it's time to move on, and to let others live their own lives. I probably should have quietly done this in the first place."

Bob, this is the most sensible thing you've written in quite some time.

AnnMarie95

Byker Bob said... "Leo, I'm finished with...

2009-10-03T22:30:02.235+13:00

Byker Bob said...
"Leo, I'm finished with you."

Yea!

The "censor" again gently reminds everyo...

2009-10-03T10:08:34.859+13:00

The "censor" again gently reminds everyone about the guidelines, specifically in this case no's 3, 4, 5.

Byker Bob, I wrote out an extended response to you...

2009-10-03T10:03:02.391+13:00

Byker Bob, I wrote out an extended response to your above post, but apparently it didn't make it past the censor, who seems bent on sheltering you from the sometimes "rough and tumble" REAL world of the exchange of philosophical ideas.

Oh well!

Anyway, it's been nice!

Take care!

Arabs and Israelites, children of one man, once sh...

2009-10-02T22:35:25.612+13:00

Arabs and Israelites, children of one man, once shared a language and family traditions under the same roof. The echo of those early years is still with us with the Muslim Hajj and the Hebrew Chag.

Muslims travel to the Hajj at Mecca to honor Abraham and Ishmael; Israelites once made three annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem.

Hajj Mubarak! or Chag s'meach! It will be good when the now-estranged brothers can finally sit together as one.

so! what are you up too! at haj island! check the...

2009-10-02T17:53:31.202+13:00

so! what are you up too! at haj island!

check the following, your ancestors are from a near by continent.

chimps and gorillas that have been evolving like crazy

near by

Leonardo said... This is also why I think the pur...

2009-10-02T16:31:21.164+13:00

Leonardo said...

This is also why I think the purveyors of supernatural religious belief in modern times (which I call fundamentalists) get so enraged when they encounter genuine obstacles to the spread of their nutty ideology, irritating hurdles such as reason, facts, logic, evidence, modernity and the overall enterprise of science, and are thus so quick to angrily hurl ACCUSATIONS (rather than REASONS) at their opponents when attempting to defend their faith in debate or discussion. Their faith leaves them intellectually unarmed, and so provides them no other alternative but to bully or otherwise enforce their religion on others, either politically or verbally.

I am amazed at how they get so upset at Art, Dance and Music! That's the first thing they go after.

They are threatened by anything that empowers humans. The arts are so easily capable of showing the foolishness of separating themselves from the rest of the human race. Those skills are an universal human language that isn't walled off by insider religious lingo.

Someone copied me in on a SDA running argument about Grace. I thought WCG lingo was obscure...I have to go to Wikipedia to even understand all the EG White lingo.
I think someone wanted to torment me.

Leo, I'm finished with you. Over seven year...

2009-10-02T15:14:45.740+13:00

Leo,

I'm finished with you. Over seven years ago, I posed the same types of questions that you have posed to me to the various Christians on WCG related blogs and forums. The only difference between you and I is that as an agnostic, I had not completely ruled out God, had not found new filters for tuning out the spiritual in books on atheism and the works of Ayn Rand, and I actually listened to and carefully considered some of the points that the Christians made in response to my questions. There were times when I made sport of them, but for the most part our exchanges were civil discourse. The
Christians back then could not authoritatively prove to me through science or history that God existed, just as it would be impossible for a non-believer to prove that God does not exist using only the Bible.

I'm in quite a different space from the one in which I found myself seven years ago. For the first time in my life, I have inner peace. I've had three decades outside of Armstrongism in which to live the life of an adrenalin junkie, but in spite of all of the excitement, there was also always something deeply lacking.

In my enthusiasm over having resolved many of the problems which had plagued me for years, I made a mistake in presuming that I was in a position to go back and help other non-believers, not that most non-believers even want any kind of help. My mistake was in failing to notice that you guys really are quite different from myself. I was not a total disbeliever. I was a seeker-agnostic, open to many possible solutions. The atheists on another forum had attempted to convince me that there is no such thing as an agnostic, that the term agnostic is a falsely created term designed to be more socially acceptable, and that in reality I was atheist just like them. I realized back then that this was not true. I'm now convinced that most Randian objectivist atheists have minds reminiscent of the Spock character which "Leonardo" Nimoy created for the original Star Trek series. I'd shrivel up and die if I had to force my mind into such a condition.

So, it's time to move on, and to let others live their own lives. I probably should have quietly done this in the first place. Time will tell who was right, and who was wrong, but I still hope to be able to sit down and enjoy some beer and pretzels with you in the Kingdom.

If this makes you think that you have "won", then so be it. Winning or losing was never my objective in the first place.

BB

Of this I am sure...It will be the BEST Haj...I me...

2009-10-02T13:16:54.855+13:00

Of this I am sure...It will be the BEST Haj...I mean Feast EVER!

What does the FOT mean? Some satire you may enjoy....

2009-10-02T12:24:33.992+13:00

What does the FOT mean? Some satire you may enjoy.

A meeting in Toe-Paw for the Cogger offshoots as K...

2009-10-02T11:40:20.655+13:00

A meeting in Toe-Paw for the Cogger offshoots as Kiwi notes.

Forty yers ago, the first Feast in NZ was held.Forty means TRIAL as the Herbster used to proclaim.Perhaps they are celebrating coming out of trial.Let's hope so,though I don't see a melding of the ways.

Edmond will be shellebrating,perhaps on its own campush or in a locale shelected by the High Preesht of Philly himshelf.

I wonder how many Jeroboams will be downed?.Is there such a thing as a Charlemagne when it comes to vino?

Cheers,

Jorgheinz Dörfermeyer

"I presented you with a challenge which was d...

2009-10-02T10:45:58.695+13:00

"I presented you with a challenge which was deliberately crafted to look equally as ridiculous to you as was your original challenge to me."

Bob, asking you to provide evidence for the existence of something is not a ridiculous challenge. If I ask you to prove that you own and ride a motorcycle, would you view that as a ridiculous challenge?

The Apostate Paul

"The world's largest Satanic cult. Thousa...

2009-10-02T10:43:22.611+13:00

"The world's largest Satanic cult. Thousands of people worshiping a meteorite (idolatry), and supporting an effort to wipe out anyone who disagrees with them...."

You are operating on the assumption that Allah, the God of the Koran, doesn't exist. He just might, Larry. I mean, if we were to apply your criteria for the existence of Jehovah to Allah, it may "prove" that Allah is real! For one, the universe. How did it get here if not for the divine hand of Allah? Second, would all these people blow themselves up for an imaginary being? Of course not. Therefore, Allah is real. You'd better renounce YOUR false, satanic God and get with the program. I suggest praying in the general direction of Mecca.

The Apostate Paul

Byker Bob wrote: "my challenge to you was pur...

2009-10-02T10:21:41.910+13:00

Byker Bob wrote:
"my challenge to you was pure sarcasm. I presented you with a challenge which was deliberately crafted to look equally as ridiculous to you as was your original challenge to me."

Bob, I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Why not avoid all the confusion by just carrying on a simple, give & take, civil dialog, instead of resorting to “sarcastic challenges”?

All you have to do is just attempt to intelligently answer the many REAL challenges and SERIOUS questions you tend to avoid like the plague, and such mis-communications could be totally avoided.

What say you?

Larry: TRUE Christians, huh. What's an UNtrue...

2009-10-02T09:41:12.024+13:00

Larry:

TRUE Christians, huh. What's an UNtrue Christian? Who decides? That whole can of worms descends into a tautology: true Christians are those who meet MY criteria, not YOUR criteria, so there! If you muck up, you were never a true Christian. If I muck up, I'm not perfect - just forgiven.

I suspect the reality is that Islam is a whole lot closer to the world of both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament than the comfy civil religion adopted by evangelicals.

"The world's largest Satanic cult. Thousa...

2009-10-02T09:27:19.735+13:00

"The world's largest Satanic cult. Thousands of people worshiping a meteorite"

I'm sorry, and this has what, to do with Islam, Larry?

Nice to see Gracie is maintaining those same "quality" standards of "comparative" religious education they "held fast to" while they still called themselves the Worldwide Church of God. Don't forget the diatribe about the Great Whore of Babylon, Larry!

Oh, that's right, splinter and beam, and "mote in your brother's eye" and all that.....

Foolish Muslims, everyone knows that God's REA...

2009-10-02T09:27:16.085+13:00

Foolish Muslims, everyone knows that God's REAL final prophet was Joseph Smith.

Don't know, Leo. I do know that TRUE Christia...

2009-10-02T09:24:01.676+13:00

Don't know, Leo.

I do know that TRUE Christians don't approve of killing anybody in the name of religion.

(Byker Bob’s recent ridiculous “challenge” for me ...

2009-10-02T09:22:55.704+13:00

(Byker Bob’s recent ridiculous “challenge” for me to prove God DOESN’T exist using only the Bible as evidence is just one example of the kind of deception and lunacy religionists are willing to resort to in order to advance their faith.)

Leo, your remark quoted above violates the policies which Gavin stated below, as it is off topic. I hope, however, that he will allow me to respond in this case, to point out that my challenge to you was pure sarcasm. I presented you with a challenge which was deliberately crafted to look equally as ridiculous to you as was your original challenge to me.

I also have to laugh. You say my posts and thoughts are valueless, yet you take so much time and space responding to them. That tells me all I really need to know.

BB

A number of the CoG branches are heading off to Ta...

2009-10-02T09:18:15.624+13:00

A number of the CoG branches are heading off to Taupo, New Zealand, this year, to mark the fact that the first FOT gathering was in Taupo 40 years ago. I understand the remnants of WCG are having a bash on Saturday night which the others may attend.
Taupo is a small place. It would be good if the inevitable bumping into one another causes at least a few to realise how ridiculous all this denominational division really is.

Just a reminder about off-topic postings :-)

2009-10-02T09:13:49.774+13:00

Just a reminder about off-topic postings :-)

Well Larry, I must agree with you here, at least i...

2009-10-02T09:10:43.088+13:00

Well Larry, I must agree with you here, at least in principle, with respect to Islam.

But I have a (literal) question for you - which religion do you think has put more people to death throughout history in the name of their God - Islam or Christianity?

Good posting. I have many happy memories from my ...

2009-10-02T08:12:39.573+13:00

Good posting. I have many happy memories from my times at the feast.

However, if Bob was just willing to read more wide...

2009-10-02T08:00:23.078+13:00

However, if Bob was just willing to read more widely, and thus not be so blinded by his embrace of fundamentalism, he would be considerably more open to other possible alternative explanations of NDE’s, which are now being artificially duplicated in various laboratory experiments.

For example, common elements of NDE’s are vivid images and feelings often interpreted as evidence of an “afterlife” – such things as the sensation of floating out of the body, passing through tunnels or hallways of bright light, peaceful meadows, feelings of great calm, and perceiving human-like figures (often interpreted by Christians as Christ or angelic beings clothed in white garments).

But most folks who are all-too-ready to attribute cosmic significance to such experiences are completely unaware and ignorant of, for instance, the work of Dr. Michael Persinger at Laurentian University located up in Sudbury, Canada.

Persinger has conducted experiments by having subjects wear modified motorcycle helmets specially fitted with electromagnets, and then having them lay down comfortably in completely sound-proof rooms with their eyes covered.

Electrical activity is then generated by the electromagnets surrounding the brain, producing something called “magnetic field patterns” that stimulate microseizures in the temporal lobes. These microseizures in turn trigger off a number of “supernatural” experiences very close or identical to NDE’s – out-of-body sensations, intense religious feelings, etc. Dr. Persinger calls these intentionally-triggered experiences “temporal lobe transients” – which basically are increases and instabilities produced in the neural firing patterns of the temporal lobes of the human brain.

Now considering the facts that we human beings regularly dream dreams that can seem very real to us at the time (even though we know in reality they are nothing more than delusional fantasies occurring within our physical brains), or that transcendental experiences of many types can predictably be artificially reproduced through the use of psycho-reactive drugs, it seems likely that religious or so-called Near Death Experiences are some sort of spontaneous neurochemical phenomenon that we just don’t currently understand very well yet in great detail.

And it’s interesting how such occurrences – NDE’s, transcendental or religious experiences, supernatural visions, out-of-body sensations, etc. – virtually ALWAYS end up conforming to people's pre-existing cultural or religious expectations.

But hey, why go through all this laborious and expensive experimentation when you can just magically declare it as an “experience with God” and thus have “evidence” of life after death?!

I'd have to say I looked forward to FOT every ...

2009-10-02T06:17:39.665+13:00

I'd have to say I looked forward to FOT every year. It seems to be a hole in the fall of my life now. I enjoyed speaking there but have to admit it was not a good thing to show the audience at Myrtle Beach how Matthew used Midrash to come up with his story of Jesus birth.

It was less smart to explain that, while Matthew found meaning in Isiah 7 with "behold a virgin shall conceive..." he quoted it, as he did all his "thus it was fulfilled" statements way way out of the original context.

Matthew and Midrash made scripture mean what it never meant.

Oh well....Six weeks later I got the evaluation from HQ on the sermon.

"Dennis, we think you know an awfully lot about Jesus....but we don't think you know Jesus."

Twas the beginning of the end....