Comments on Ambassador Watch: $125,000,000 plus

the fact that the article is from a website run by...

2007-12-03T04:21:00.000+13:00

the fact that the article is from a website run by lunatics doesn't change the monk's name or what he theorized.

Paul says,The article is from "What Really Happene...

2007-12-02T11:44:00.000+13:00

Paul says,
The article is from "What Really Happened; The History that the Government Hopes You DON'T Learn."

Heh heh, figures. It might as well have been in the "National Inquirer".

Seems to me like all Christians were laughing at the idea of the big bang and an expanding universe until just recently rather than "embraced the idea of an expanding universe" prior to 1927.

I don't think my memory is that faulty. I really was born at night but it wasn't last night.

The article is from "What Really Happened; The His...

2007-12-02T10:21:00.000+13:00

The article is from "What Really Happened; The History that the Government Hopes You DON'T Learn."

The website also features articles on topics from how 911 was an inside job to how Osama Bin Laden is dead.

Nice.

Paul

Ron Paul 2008

Corky, I'm not sure of the author but you can try ...

2007-12-02T09:58:00.000+13:00

Corky, I'm not sure of the author but you can try googling the Monk's name below:

"Religious circles embraced the idea of an expanding universe because for the universe to be expanding, then at some point in the past it had to originate from a single point, called the "Big Bang". Indeed, the concept of the Big Bang did not originate with Edwin Hubble but was proposed by a Catholic Monk, Georges Lemaître in 1927, two years before Hubble published his observations of the Red Shift. The "Big Bang" coincided nicely with religious doctrine and just as had been the case with epicycles (and despite the embarrassment thereof) religious institutions sought to encourage this new model of the universe over all others, including the then prevalent "steady state" theory."

Charlie says,I don't think the big bang theory is ...

2007-12-02T07:56:00.000+13:00

Charlie says,
I don't think the big bang theory is at odds with a belief in God at all.

Neither do I, but it's not a proof of one either. And, it is at odds with Genesis and therefore, biblegod.

I don't believe it was a religious concept by a Catholic monk either, at least in the way you want it to sound.

It's like when Galileo's observations turned out to be true and the Church claimed that they knew it all along.

The same with a spherical earth, germs, atoms etc etc etc. One of these days it will have been the Church that knew about evolution and abiogenesis all the whole time. They just didn't tell anyone because it might confuse them or cause them to lose faith.

Corky,Hate to burst your bubble, but the Big Bang ...

2007-12-02T07:13:00.000+13:00

Corky,

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Big Bang originated as a religious concept by a catholic monk and remains origin theory for most judeo / christian sects today.

Edwin Hubble found proof for it and the hubble telescope appears to find more proof for it all the time.

I don't think the big bang theory is at odds with a belief in God at all.

"What was before the big bang or what caused the b...

2007-12-01T19:26:00.000+13:00

"What was before the big bang or what caused the big bang is still unknown and may never be known."

Hah! Therefore, Zeus must exist! You non-believing fool! If you can't explain the origin of the universe, then the ONLY answer must be an invisible supernatural diety! It's so very clear!

Paul

BTW, GO RON PAUL!!!

The "big bang" theory was confirmed by the Hubble ...

2007-12-01T17:30:00.000+13:00

The "big bang" theory was confirmed by the Hubble project with what is called the "red shift" and the confirmation that the universe is in constant change and expanding.

What was before the big bang or what caused the big bang is still unknown and may never be known.

Charlie,No, I was not suggesting that you healed y...

2007-12-01T13:36:00.000+13:00

Charlie,

No, I was not suggesting that you healed yourself in that instance. But my point is that it can happen, and there are documented cases of such things happening, and they aren't due to the supernatural; so, I simply can't lay that aside and say that, oh, it must be God....especially since we have no other evidence for God either. Non-Supernatural explanation? Documented proof. God? No proof. 1 to 0. See my point. If there were other evidence for God, let us say, a prophet that went around reviving the week old dead (all scientifically validated), then I could lean to your explanation because I would have strong evidence that there are supernatural occurences and therefore your situation may be one of them. But we have no proof for God. At all. Therefore I go with another explanation for which we have evidence for.

"If you don't believe in the big bang theory then you can ignore the question."

I have yet to study it, so no I don't have an opinion on it. Besides. I hate physics, so I will approach studying this subject with the same desire that I have to hand-sand my wooden deck.

Paul

"Lazarus was not dead dead. He was spiritually dea...

2007-12-01T11:03:00.000+13:00

"Lazarus was not dead dead. He was spiritually dead from the group after four days and was as good as dead. Jesus went to bring him back in to the fold. Then he was alive from the dead. "

Hmmm, so, spritutally dead people stink after 4 days?

Paul said: "This is exactly what I am talking abou...

2007-12-01T10:06:00.000+13:00

Paul said: "This is exactly what I am talking about. These experiences are never, ever things that could ~only~ be attributed to a supernatural power, such as missing limb spontaneously regenerating. You fever went away and swelling went down instantaneously? That's proof of an supernatural deity?? There are many, many documented cases of people's condition healing due to the mind."

Paul, So what you are saying is that in effect, when I prayed, I convinced myself somewhere in my subconscious that I was really God, and that I healed myself and dispatched the necessary miracle within my own body, instantaneously healing myself upon the conclusion of my prayer, thereby reinforcing my conscious mind's fallacy of believing in a God.

Thank you ever so much for clearing that up for me...(a little sarcasm intended)

I think I also mentioned that the marks of what caused the situation to begin with were also gone...That would be at odds with the speed at which skin regenerates from a trauma.

As part of the Big Bang theory which I do not know if you subscribe to, all of the matter in the universe was once condensed into a sphere of an indeterminite but small size, for the sake of argument, let's say that is true, what naturally occuring event do you attribute to this anomaly? The existence of the sphere to begin with?

If you don't believe in the big bang theory then you can ignore the question. I wouldn't ask you to justify something you don't think holds water.

The amputee, retard, down's syndrome, thalidomide children thing does stick out there like a gigantic sore thumb. I agree with you 100% on that.

"I am curious as to which naturally occuring event...

2007-12-01T08:28:00.000+13:00

"I am curious as to which naturally occuring event you would attribute to *instantaneous* removal of high fever, significant swelling, a lingering feeling that I could not and still cannot really describe, and all traces of the cause...after asking God to heal me."

This is exactly what I am talking about. These experiences are never, ever things that could ~only~ be attributed to a supernatural power, such as missing limb spontaneously regenerating. You fever went away and swelling went down instantaneously? That's proof of an supernatural deity?? There are many, many documented cases of people's condition healing due to the mind. Placebo effect, anyone? Certain meditative states have allowed some people to control body temperature and heart rates (things that usually we have no control over). If we have documented cases of such regeneration and control of body functions than we can't simply discount them and say your situation is of God. We have to consider them both; we have evidence already of the former, and zip for the latter. Even besides those points, we aren't even talking about something serious like cancer or a tumor; it's a fever and swelling, for Allah's sake! These things come and go like the wind.

This too, shows me that in the eye of a Christian, ANYTHING is criteria for proof of God. Fever and missed plane rides. A check in the mail and a chance meeting. A ten dollar bill found in a back pocket. The trajectory of a bullet. Wind. Stray thoughts.

Again, why is it we NEVER see an occurance that could ONLY be attributed to a supernatural deity???? When I say ONLY, I don't mean that it is highly improbable, I mean that there is no way, within the confines of reality, to occur without divine intervention. For example, Charlie's fever versus a missing limb spontaneously regenerating. One, though it may be highly probable, can happen within the realm of reality. The other cannot and can ONLY be attributed to a deity. Why do we have no records of the latter?

Answer #1: God is purposely witholding an act that would show the world that he exists (Even though he want's the whole world to accept his existence).

Answer #2: God hate amputees.

Answer #3: God is powerless, only able to perform small feats.

Answer #4 God doesn't exist.

http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/god5.htm

Paul,I agree with you on many points as I am skept...

2007-12-01T06:55:00.000+13:00

Paul,

I agree with you on many points as I am skeptical of many claims myself, however I am curious as to which naturally occuring event you would attribute to *instantaneous* removal of high fever, significant swelling, a lingering feeling that I could not and still cannot really describe, and all traces of the cause...after asking God to heal me.

This is not bullshit and is exactly what happened.

It wasn't adrenaline...I know what that feels like.

Dennis, I wouldn't even call most of those coincid...

2007-12-01T06:25:00.000+13:00

Dennis, I wouldn't even call most of those coincidences- but natural occurances. Most of them aren't even highly improbable, much less proof of divine intervention. By your standards, making it to work in the morning without dying is proof of divine intervention. You confirm what I always have suspected. That believers or Christian's "proof" of answered prayer or divine intervention (for all Christians have a list of these) are nothing more than a few questionable coincidences (which are not proof of a supernatural force) and whole lot of normal occurences which every person on the planet experiences.

It seems for alot of people that the criteria for a supernatural occurence is about as low as the criteria of an occurence of the Holy Spirit for a Pentecostal preacher.

I remember one of my "proofs" was car wreck. I agreed with my mother and brother for years that it was indeed, had to be, God. But I held within myself my doubts...I felt that not attributing our escape was somehow not showing God the proper respect. In this sense, a Christian (or a person pre-disposed to believe in the supernatural) will inherently attribute anything out of the norm to the supernatural.

Paul

to ripleythe leeches are back :)http://news.bbc.co...

2007-12-01T00:33:00.000+13:00

to ripley

the leeches are back :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3858087.stm

One of the best lines ever, from the Wittenberg Do...

2007-11-30T23:00:00.000+13:00

One of the best lines ever, from the Wittenberg Door piece:

"Sometimes I think that if theologians were doctors, they would still be using leeches."

Priceless.

Life events:It seems that once one has a life savi...

2007-11-30T11:35:00.000+13:00

Life events:

It seems that once one has a life saving experience, God is the only explanation for it. This of course is not so as many 'pagans', 'muslims', 'communists' and those outside of Mr. Pack's circle of protection experience life saving events.

When it happens to a believer it inforces the belief. When it happens to a non believer, it either just happens and there is gratitude for how it worked out, or others feel that "god is trying to tell you something."

In college I ...

Missed a plane that was hit by a fighter jet over Los Angelo.

Almost fell out of small plane (that was not the summer for planes) with the door off dropping parachutes to hunters.

Started to fall off the student center pulling a hose over the railing and "popped back up on my feet."

In the ministry.

Had the car engine die pulling out on the hwy only to have car roll back and a semi-truck go by I did not see.

Had a drunk driver heading right at me to where I saw the pattern in his headlights in the dark, and then he disappeared into night. It felt like the car went thru my car as the only way he missed me and kids.

Survived a very angry person with a deer rifle to my head for baptising her husband.

Lived through at least 35 presentations about the wonderful world tomorrow by Gerald Waterhouse.

Sang "Praise Ye the Lordo" 1265 times without laughing.

I now realize that God did all this so I could have my own therapeutic massage practice in the Bible Belt.

As WCG Blog would tell me "What a Surprising God."

:)dd

Perhaps you can get an answer from our resident ex...

2007-11-30T06:42:00.000+13:00

Perhaps you can get an answer from our resident expert on all things regarding God, Saint Tom. I'm sure he can explain to us why God doesn't heal missing / blown off limbs, mental retardation, and Down's Syndrome / Autism.

It's because he can't, he doesn't exist. The only "miraculous" healings were those very same ones that can be faked at any old town Pentecostal tent meeting. The lame, the blind, the deaf etc. are very easily faked and I personally know of one that was.

It's always someone no one present at the meeting knows who gets healed. And, no amputees are ever healed, not even in the Bible. That's because it can't be faked.

Is there anything bad about believing in a god? Nope. But, to assert that a god does exist without evidence and to pass that off as true and thereby convincing other people to believe it or face punishment is not only bad, it's heinous.

If a god does not exist, preaching that one does exist is perpetuating a myth and really should be considered a crime against humanity.

Why do people believe in a god? Because that's what they hear from the time they are born - the myth perpetuated and handed down to them from people they trust most, their parents and their parents received it the same way. I believe it is called a "meme" in sophisticated circles. Aah yes, here it is in the dictionary:

American Heritage Dictionary - meme (mēm)
n. A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another.

In the Bible, God tended to "heal" maladies that m...

2007-11-30T06:07:00.000+13:00

In the Bible, God tended to "heal" maladies that might pass with time, for example a seizure. Sometimes when it speaks of someone being "blind" or "dead" it is more interms of spiritually, though being literalized, that sense is lost.

Lazarus was not dead dead. He was spiritually dead from the group after four days and was as good as dead. Jesus went to bring him back in to the fold. Then he was alive from the dead.

Paul said he "saw" Jesus, but we know he meant in vision. He experienced Jesus but never met him. He even said he "saw" Jesus in the same way the others did. This leads to thinking even the others saw Jesus in their heads or minds and not for real in the flesh as neither did Paul.

Some "saw" Elvis after he died too. Some still see him

Paul said: "And I would bet that every one of thes...

2007-11-30T05:30:00.000+13:00

Paul said: "And I would bet that every one of these instances were not 100% inexplicable; that is, the situations were improbable, but not impossible without divine intervention. It's comparing the regression of cancer due to prayer to the regeneration of a missing limb due to prayer."

Paul, I have given the matter an incredible amount of thought and reflection over the years. I have already weeded out items that could possibly have had other than divine explanations. I hope that you can take me at my word, but I do not blame you for being skeptical....hell, I always am.

FYI - The healing had nothing to do with some minister laying on the hands, an anointed cloth, or anything like that. It was simply a young boy (me) asking God to heal him. It was complete, instantaneous, and the most incredible thing I have ever experienced in my life. I'll never forget it.

The one I mentioned regarding the Marines had nothing to do with combat, it was enroute to a bivouac area and involved me and two a**holes. The others will remain my business only.

Regarding the healing of Mental retardation, missing limbs, down's syndrome, etc. I do find it strange Paul, I don't like it one single bit. If I ever do get to meet God, he has a lot of answering to do.

Perhaps you can get an answer from our resident expert on all things regarding God, Saint Tom. I'm sure he can explain to us why God doesn't heal missing / blown off limbs, mental retardation, and Down's Syndrome / Autism.

"No Paul, it did not. In fact I cannot think of on...

2007-11-30T05:03:00.000+13:00

"No Paul, it did not. In fact I cannot think of one instance where this has ever happened."

Why is that? Doesn't that seem odd to you?

"It did include a healing, saving my life, twice (Once in the Marines), and a couple things of a private nature."

And I would bet that every one of these instances were not 100% inexplicable; that is, the situations were improbable, but not impossible without divine intervention. It's comparing the regression of cancer due to prayer to the regeneration of a missing limb due to prayer. One can happen without divine intervention, but the latter cannot. Why do see and hear about the former but never the later? Don't you think it strange? A grenade may land next to you but not go off. Improbable? Yes. Impossible without divine intervention? No, it can happen. But compare that to seeing a bullet suspend itself in midair or a mortar suddenly reversing it's course- these things are impossible without divine intervention. Why is it that we see the former example but not the latter ones? Odd, isn't it?

"I have always found it amusing / troubling that we expect God to heal things that modern medicine can cure or mitigate, but not missing limbs, retardation, or Down's syndrome, etc."

I agree! That's also strange. Why is that? I think it is because we know, deep down, that God really doesn't heal people. At all.

"I have also found fundamentalist atheists as hard headed and difficult to communicate with as fundamentalist believers. They both have closed their minds to any other possibilities than what they *want* to believe in."

I have said it over and over....I do not believe in God due to lack of evidence. My belief/disbelief is based on evidence/lack of evidence. Therefore, if the evidence appears, then I will believe. It's that simple. Now the evidence has to be convincing, but nothing grand.

Paul

"If someone asserts that something doesn't exist, ...

2007-11-30T04:18:00.000+13:00

"If someone asserts that something doesn't exist, they should be able to prove that their assertion is true, otherwise the assertion is meaningless."

I can't argue with that kind of logic. You are absolutely right. Therefore, my assertion that flying purple unicorns do not exist is meaningless. They must exist, because I cannot prove that they do not exist. Oh, why do I kick against the goads?

Paul

Tom said: "I have no reason to doubt that your pra...

2007-11-30T03:33:00.000+13:00

Tom said: "I have no reason to doubt that your prayers have been answered. However, if you have joined the scoffers in being critical of HWA, your prayers have not been answered."

Tom, Not only am I critical of HWA, I find it somewhere between difficult and impossible to have anything that could even be charitably considered a Christian thought about him. He was a man with a God complex that had a negative influence in this world and continues to tarnish souls even after his death.

I said: "At the simplest level, I believe in God t...

2007-11-30T03:26:00.000+13:00

I said: "At the simplest level, I believe in God through unquestionably answered prayer."

Paul said: "Which I assume did not involve the miraculous healing of an amputee."

No Paul, it did not. In fact I cannot think of one instance where this has ever happened.

It did include a healing, saving my life, twice (Once in the Marines), and a couple things of a private nature.

I have always found it amusing / troubling that we expect God to heal things that modern medicine can cure or mitigate, but not missing limbs, retardation, or Down's syndrome, etc.

I have also found fundamentalist atheists as hard headed and difficult to communicate with as fundamentalist believers. They both have closed their minds to any other possibilities than what they *want* to believe in.

Charlie said:>>>At the simplest level, I believe i...

2007-11-30T03:17:00.000+13:00

Charlie said:

>>>At the simplest level, I believe in God through unquestionably answered prayer. (And most of them happened AFTER I left the WCG, Tom.)<<<

I have no reason to doubt that your prayers have been answered. However, if you have joined the scoffers in being critical of HWA, your prayers have not been answered.