The Painful Truth About The Worldwide Church of God

Email To The Editor
(Page 36)

(Mail from Kooks, Nuts and Loonies is on another page)


 Dear Editor,

It has been some time since we last emailed the Painful Truth. First of all, our heartfelt thanks for the support your website has given us in our recovery from 25 years of wcg's abuses. Through your website we have been led to enlightenment.

During this past year we have done an intensive study of ancient history, including mythology & legends,& using our intelligence & reason we have come to some startling conclusions.

The Bible, although containing some moral truths, is not God's word & is merely a work of allegorical fiction. Christianity is just paganism reshaped. Jesus the man did not exist except in a contrived myth, containing all the details of the lives of the mythical Mithra, Buddha, Krishna, Osiris & others.

We still believe in the universal God source that is in all things. However, we believe that we have the capacity to chart our destiny. In the past we heard that by faith in a certain belief we were saved & actions were not the path to salvation. Now we know that the only faith that ever saved anyone is the faith that comes from believing in yourself. We are responsible for our own spiritual development. We want a better world. Then we must be the ones to change it, starting with ourselves.

We need to become creators. A simple good deed is an act of creation that will bring a feeling of happiness to someone else. Making someone else happy creates happiness for yourself. It is the greatest gift that we have to offer.

This is the way we look at life now. What a tremendous feeling of freedom & peace of mind we have gained & we thank you for your part in it. A special thanks to John O. for his research & inspiration. Also thanks for letting us share our thoughts with you. Do keep up the good work.

Warm regards,

Dot & Dick

Dear Editor,

Why aren't there tons of bad testimonies about the United Church Of God (UCG)? This is where the large majority of all the masters and slaves moved to after they left Worldwide Church of God, and this is where the worst of the garbage is still being continued.

Evidence of the continuation of the empty-headed false religion is in their latest newspaper "United News" on page 8. They have a council that makes determinations and judgments (acting like God) for the poor empty-headed followers. The latest determination and ruling by the high council is "Church Identity". Apparently the council receives requests from the members, asking the council to tell them how to think and what to say and do, I was first exposed to UCG over 4 years ago and it was immediately apparent how dead they are in spirit, and how abusive they are with their control tactics. I'll be sharing some personal experiences with you and revealing some of their unbelievable tactics and practices.

The more appropriate name for all of the COGs which are descended from the Armstrong empire, including the spin-offs should be ...... ACOGs Armstrong Churches of God. There are other churches in the world with the name Church Of God that existed long before Armstrong ever abused his first female or went on his first drunk. And as we know no human religious organization can rename Gods church anyway. The moment they place a name on front of Church of God, such as Worldwide, Global, United, etc. they immediately separate themselves from the true church which cannot be manhandled by human minds and hands.

More to come. Ben

Subject: Minister Confiscates Tapes

My First Experience With The ACOGs (Armstrong Churches Of God)

Approximately 4 years ago I visited a UCG (United Church Of God) meeting in Mobile, Al., where a jerk minister named Harold Rhodes herded the cattle part time his main hideout was in Pensacola, Fla. The little group had a tape library. People could check out a tape, blah, blah. My girlfriend was an ex-Deaconess from Worldwide and she was now attending this UCG group. She was still a little shaken from the break-up of the Worldwide Church of God and was also skeptical about the leadership of the newly formed UCG, where the majority of the false prophets and false elect transferred. For clarification I must say that at that time my girlfriend still believed she and they were the exclusive holders of the truth.

Needless to say I was skeptical about the whole thing but had to find out for myself if "THE TRUTH" was really exclusively possessed by this elite? group. It was kind of like I was about to undertake some new adventure through wonderland.....if that makes any sense.

The first time I shook hands with Rhodes his first verbal utterance to me was something to the effect "What do you do?" or "Where are you from?" you know, like an investigator would start a line of questioning for some criminal suspect at least that was my gut feeling when I met him.

My girlfriend being the helpful person she is loaned a set of her personally owned tapes to the tape library. The tapes were recorded by a rogue COG minister who was making waves with the UCG at that time but his messages were certainly interesting. Well, the tape librarian & her husband, both being obedient robots for the UCG they told on my girlfriend for loaning **tainted** tapes to the tape library.

Harold Rhodes confiscated the tapes and informed my truly decent girlfriend that the tapes "are not approved by the Home Office" and he (Rhodes) had sent them to the home office for review. He made sure he told her this in a quiet manner so the rest of the cattle would not hear it and become restless they had high regards for my friend. After she told me about this I became outraged that humans were being treated in such a manner in the name of God. This disgusted me to the bone and being an ex-Marine I was chewing my tongue off trying to be decent about what was occurring right before my very eyes.

At that time in history there was a big religious forum in CompuServe under the name Worldwide Church of God but it mainly consisted of freak UCG ministers and all interested correspondents. I took my complaint to that forum and titled my message "Minister Confiscates Tapes". I told the story. It caused an uproar and needless to say I received all kinds of darts from the wasp nest. But guess what it worked.

The following Sabbath, Rhodes had his wife return the tapes to my dear friend. He proved himself to be a liar he never sent them anywhere. The REAL TRUTH was now revealed.


 I'm sorry, but I ran accross your ugly comments about one of the greatest men to live in America, Herbert W. Armstrong!

And you, I'm afraid, are a HYPOCRITE!

You say all that matters is that we love God and our fellowman yet you are not showing one ounce of love towards Herbert W. Armstrong! Then you turn around and make a mockery of the man's life work by ridiculing The Plain Truth Magazine! I wonder what kind of love towards fellowman is this?! Herbert W. Armstrong taught only one thing during his long tenure as Pastor General of the Worldwide Church of God...THE TRUTH! All of the prophecies he spoke are being fulfilled right now! If you read world news you will see that Germany is leading The European Union to revive The Beast, or The Holy Roman Empire. You will see that Russia and China are uniting to form that huge 200,000,000 million man army of Revelation. America has not won a war since WWII just as HWA said! (we did not win the Persian Gulf War-Saddam Hussein is still alive and a threat!) And the final era, the Laodiecean Era, is in full swing at Pasadena, California! And those were just a few of the many prophecies he spoke that are happening right now!


Yeah, I guess the truth is painful, TO THE REBELLIOUS!



Regarding herb's prophesies, check out his 207 thoroughly documented, FAILED Prophesies.

Herbert Armstrong, (the middle initial, "W," was a fake just as much as he was, so his real initials were HA: Ha, Ha from herb on all those that he misled in the name of God.) was a fraud. He raped his teenage daughter for 10 years and he raped thousands of sincere, poor people who wanted to follow God. We, instead, followed a corrupt man whose only concern was his own self-importance and money.

We can't get our money back from this corrupt gang of liars and thieves but we can take away their pompous self-importance by publishing the truth. HA and his henchmen are made ugly only by the very painful truth about them.

As the previous editor of the PT has said before, and I repeat: if you can prove anything on The Painful Truth is untrue, we will change it

If the PT is hypocritical in your eyes for exposing herb for the fraud that he was, so be it. If you promote his lies and frauds, you may be just as bad as he was.


It seems we had a process of small decisions that led up to the BIG one to leave "god's true church". It must have been as agonizing for all to come to the final decision. Especilly if some family members stayed behind. Wanna share your story?



It's an interesting point, Joanne, because Douglas B. raised the excellent question of the validity with all our consciences - a subject that's also been addressed on the forum. I think, like so many others, that the turning point came when we were asked to compromise on our most fundamental and ethical beliefs. Since these cultmasters and tares showed little or no moral courage, they were totally alien to the way of true love, dignity, and human decency.
Most of us were (thankfully) raised on the belief system of "Do unto others . . . " and if followed, this would bring eventual peace to this planet. But that's NOT what happened in Worldwide Church of God. Those tares and jackals would never wanted to be treated the way they treated the membership. They conned us, they were ignorant men - for the most part, they mis-represented themselves, they lied, they equivocated, they kept us ignorant, they politicked for their own advantage, they pointed the finger of loyalty to a despot, they helped destroy our futures so they could live high, they were instrumental in ruining any security we might have had so they could have their chunky off-shore accounts and their own golden parachutes, they damaged our personal relationships, they alienated our children, and they caused suicides, alcoholism, and drove people into manic depressive states.
Certainly, those creatures of darkness would NEVER want to be treated that same way themselves, and so, they did NOT follow the "Golden Rule." But their behaviour M.O. was kept well hidden for many years.
But, it was when many of us saw their untoward behaviour coming to the surface, that we simply questioned their antics - nothing more. We questioned them. But - when their explosive response was a demand for even more loyalty "no matter what," then our fundamental belief system kicked in. These cultmasters were so stupid to have taken this approach. But, then again, anyone who is a cultmaster ain't all that bright.
We all said "No" to these criminals who ignored the Golden Rule and who chose to "Rule over all nations with a rod of iron."
The turning point came when they opposed that spark of God and decency in every person, and those corrupt businessmen demanded instead, a submissive behaviour from us that they themselves would never submit to.
The turning point came when they pushed the envelope of wisdom and common sense, and demanded a crazed "loyalty" and cult-insanity from us, and the expected us to blindly follow along with gullible approvals regarding the stench of their own moral depravity.
We simply said "NO."

John O.



I recently received an unsolicited email from Don Tiger who was inviting me to view the Website he called the Herbert W. Armstrong CD Project. Below was my response.

Mr. Tiger:

You have sent me this email by mistake. As far as I am concerned there was no greater criminal personality who presided over no greater bunch of thugs called ministers than Herbert W. Armstrong since Adolf Hitler. Our current socio-pathetic president, Bill Clinton, I am sure either has taken lessons from Herbert W. Armstrong and his playboy SOB, Garner Ted Armstrong or is possessed by the spiritual forces that drove them.

As a result of my 20 year association with the Worldwide Church of God, the church of brotherly hate, the dysfunctional family, I am all but an atheist, not giving a wit about god, religion and such belief as it seems to me it is little more than a business. I would be just as far ahead having faith in my Chrysler or a loaf of Wonder Bread. It is all about money and, in the case of Worldwide Church of God, it was a matter of pay, pray, stay and shut up.

I hate Herbert W. Armstrong and everything he stood for. Each of the churches that have come from his stupidity were form for the purpose of making money for a few special elite at the price of many whose faith is sadly misplaced. I believe we should dig the old guy up and put him on trial much as a medieval pope did to one of his predecessors.

Take me off your list. I wish to hear nothing of Herbert W. Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong, Worldwide Church of God or any of the other whore churches that came from it every again.






From: Kenneth Grove

To: Email "> Email

Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:34 PM

Subject: yup

 you guys are turning into little Herbies (angry "don't bothers", mean authoritative quips). I'm not kidding. I quess you end up like the one you hate.


Well then Kenneth, why don't you just go away before you become like us?


 It would lend your site much more credibility if the letters and books excerpts you include, especially on this subject, were in actual scanned images instead of html typed text.


 If I had good copies, I would certainly do that. They are so marked up with marking pens that don't copy well that they are almost unreadable and not scannable.


 Hello from France

I have been a Worldwide Church of God member since 1985, and left very recently (Jan. 2000).

It took me more than 2 years, and a depressive mental state, to finally understand what I have been going through : mind control, manipulation, indoctrination, and lies, lies, lies ... It has been very very difficult, painful, stressful to ADMIT that the Worldwide Church of God was/is a deceptive, manipulative and dangerous cult full of LIES, that I got sucked into a CULT, and then to draw the conclusions from this understanding. Never I could have imagined it would be so difficult. Here in France Worldwide Church of God is as dangerous as in USA or somewhere else.

Since then, I am feeling a sense of freedom, more freedom day after day : freedom from bible study (pseudo-"word of God" : lies); freedom from boring repetitive sermons (lies); freedom from boring assemblies of brainwashed human robots talking about lies; freedom from being manipulated and guilted by WN or letters (lies); freedom to read books about cults, psychology and evolution (aaaaargh satanic lies ! :-), freedom to extirpate all these religious lies out of my brain, to re-educate myself, to re-build a healthy self-esteem, ...

The Painful Truth site has been instrumental in my awakening. It is the richest, most valuable resource I found on the Internet.

I would like to express my deepest thanks to all of you contributors :

first, a G R E A T thank you to Ed who has maintained the site for so long; thank you to John B, Louise, Michelle, Dana, Steven, and all others numerous contributors, your articles helped me so much !


You are all my friends forever

David Chantoiseau

P.S. to Editor : if you want, it's ok to post this message to the site with my full name and address

 Good morning "The Editor"!

I am going to request for your instructions of how to get on the Delphi message board. I am within the majority of opinion that liked the Inside The Web board better. I, too strongly feel, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." At the same time, I will try to give this new board a chance.

I do feel there is a bit of a down side to message boards. When message boards pop up, people feel there is less of a need to write articles on the website. This is exactly the case with Mark Tabladillo's website. I feel article writing is important and it is a true art (I am a writer by hobby, I wouldn't mind someday if it was a profession). Speaking of articles, I am planning to write an article (and hope to have it done by year's end) about the historic Worldwide Church of God and its negative view on human sexuality. My friends on the board have advised me to handle this topic with care. Those who have something to worry about is of course, those oppressive ministers and slave-loving members who protect them.

My background is that I am one who grew up in the Worldwide Church of God since I was 1 1/2 and at age 28, a couple years ago had to make a painful decision of stopping to attend their services. It is lonely and hellish process. I have told people before it was like the Truman Show but watching the movie is a hell of a lot fun than living it. I felt the Worldwide Church of God was still run much run as a cult and the members still had cult mentality of thinking. I am now associated with Good News Fellowship, a ministry run by Dr. Desmond Ford who was a Seventh Day Adventist professor and minister. Dr. Ford challenged a major cultic doctrine of the SDA's, proving it was wrong but was fired from the denomination. He since then formed his own ministry. If you want to link it on the Painful Truth website, his website is: I also visit Messianic Jewish synagogue City of David or other Messianic groups here in Toronto, Canada.

Boy! It's amazing that I came here to make a registration request but talked a bit of my background. Well, that's me sometimes! I'm glad to form a new friendship with you (though we may disagree on various points at times).

Take care and God bless.


 Dear Editor,

Thank you very much for your information about the wcg.

I left the wcg two months ago after a long research about the NT and Christianity. At this very moment I believe that the NT and the Jesus story are a myth people believe without evidence. The so called prophesies in the OT are not only no prophesies at all they are certainly not speaking of Jesus. So, I reject now the idea that Jesus is the messiah and/or God himself.

After reading your information about Armstrong and his gang I realize how stupid I have been to join the wcg in 1988. I believed until last year that the wcg was Gods only church, but now I know it was fake. What a fool I have been to believe the wcg propaganda and lies.

As I live in The Netherlands we even received less information about the wcg in the United States and its corrupt leaders. The leader in Holland knew it all and made a very good living with our tithes. What a jerk (He is now a hireling of an offshoot cg).

I should have known better.

And there are still people who believe the nonsense, I feel sorry for them.

But I am also relieved and grateful to you. Now everything falls into its place.

I keep the Shabbat and Holy Days, but knowing the NT is a pagan book, you could say the same thing about the OT, like you wrote in one of your articles. That's right, but it scares me. What's left if the OT is a man written document?

Should I leave the law behind me if it seems that the OT is a fabrication of man? How can a man be sure the law is not from God?

Could you please tell me your experience of the path you followed and advise me on this.

Best regards,



 I would suggest you read the FAQ page for info on how the former Editor of the PT found his way out of the maze of religion and into the freedom of being able to think for himself.

Keep reading and studying materials other than cult provided. See the Bibliolatry page. There is plenty of info for those that want to learn.

What is left if the OT is not written by God? Freedom. It is scary at first but you get over it.


Did you know that on "Southern Exposure", Page 1 and Page 2 link both to the same first page of the article? Page 3 is okay, but there is no second page.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for going to all your trouble to make this information available. What a bunch of sleezeballs!

Lea Anne

 I am learning so much more than I ever thought I would just by seeing what religions do to people. I recently read the page by Patti. dated 4/09/99

--It helped me a lot .

I also read some of Brimsmead's articles, which also helped us get the true meaning. If you don't search you will not find the answers. Just like Ed I feel we are being tortured by some of these people in WWCG -( The good Christians :) LOL) I give Ed a lot of credit for posting this board! Please e-mail me back with anything that you would think is beneficial to us.

 With love--I wish to remain anonymous right now but may not in the future.


Hi Editor:

While I've no idea why I (initially) couldn't find the "Pasadena Campus," article this morning.  I finally did when I went to the section that recalled articles that I'd recently read.

If you cannot find it, I've made a print out on this mess, and can fax U.  What's your fax number again - if needed?

After reading this article again, I'm at a stage of complete numbness.  No longer do I feel infuriated.  I don't feel anything.  I would just like to vomit. I think this Tkach madness has gone beyond the galaxies of any decency, morality, or human ethics.  And unfortunately, he (and his minions) are getting away with it.

The AC campus had tons of open space - mainly dichondra lawns - and it's not hard to see why developers would want to clutter it all with offices, residential buildings, etc.  Land is at an ultra-premium in Pasadena. 

In January 1978, the recorded interest on the principle for money (using AC as collateral), from 1977, was $7 million.  I saw the figures.  Later, I was told the Stan Rader had borrowed up to $250 million using the campus as collateral. 

While I don't see that we'll ever "see" a final figure for the sale, this might give an idea of how much this real estate is worth, and, a small part as to where the tithe money went.   We all know what development corporations will do, but when we actually see it in writing, it simply stuns us.  Especially when it was paid for with the sweat, lives, and dedication of people who were conned out of money, security, and their life's blood.

If Microsoft, Shell Oil, IBM, etc. can be sued for fraud, then why can't religions corporations?  They're all in the same damned thing  . . . business.

But we must remember (as we learned before), that suing a "church" is an unpopular move, and could end up as a political disaster.  Dukemajin backed off in 1979, because if he'd won the Worldwide Church of God case, then he was intending to go after the JW's, the SDA's, the Mormons, and etc.  This obviously meant NO votes for "Duke" in his gubernatorial race.  So, the lawyers backed off.  Pity.

  I'm sure they have it all planned.

If you need that article faxed, then lemme know.

Best.  JohnO

 You should have VICTIM tatooed on your forehead. I was there. I know what it was lke. Enjoy feeling sorry for your self? Maybe just a little? Poor Baby! OOHHH!!!! You are disgusting. You are a reflection of this totally screwed up world we live in. Get a life.

Phil Neale

Dear Editors: 

Since I don't have an email for Michelle, let me send this to you for her.

This is a very sobering, true, to the point, and a most realistic article (Drive-by Religion).  Thank you.  How true.  Herbert W. Armstrong+ his minions shot us all in the foot and moved on, as if nothing had happened.  Thankfully, you're Ok from the shooting, alive, and well, but I'm with you  . . . I wish they could have nabbed the mindless thug that pulled the trigger. 

Re: Worldwide Church of God, all of us still wonder:  "How could these bastards have hurt us so much?"  And you're right.  They don't give a damn.  They're no better than drive by assassins.  I have more explicit names, but they cannot be printed here.

Excellent article, Michelle. 

Best.  JohnO.

 Hi There,

Boy, what a site! I ran across your site through a link on It sounds like you saved me a lot of grief. But I have to tell you, I'm very saddened with what I've read....really saddened......I'm VERY glad you made it available, though!

So tell me, with all that has happened to you, who/where is the real Church? Any links?




The real Church? All churches are real.
As far as I can tell, no church has the sanction or approval of God. The evidence seems to indicate that God doesn't give a rat's ass about mankind in general. This God certainly doesn't care about any of the goofy manmade religions, which includes ALL of them. They are ALL based on faith in nothing that can be proven to be linked to God at all. But that does not deter the faithful members from being proud of their faith in nothing. Religion is the opiate of the masses and churches are the drug houses and ministers are the drug dealers.

Read the bibliolatry page and the FAQ page.




 I thoroughly read all of the commentary listed on your site as well as the various links on your site and have come to the conclusion that your problem was not the "WCG" as you have referred to it, but the problem resides wholly with you. I'm not a member nor am I affiliated with the "WCG", nor do I have any underlining or overriding vested interest directly or indirectly with the "WCG". At the heart of my life I am a Christian man, and secondarily I am a programmer analysts in the banking industry, and have been taught through my education to rationalize every situation, take ever variable into account, and explain life's circumstances and present day condition as being some logically defined and controlled pattern of inferences and dependent events. I noticed on your site that you indicated that you gave your life to Christ in the early 60's or there about, but I think one thing that you missed in your whole pursuit is the vital fact that you were more caught up in the doctrine, teachings, and "do's & don'ts system of the CHURCH", so much so that you were "taken by every wind of doctrine". You should have given more credence to the utterances of Christ as opposed to those preceding out to the mouth of the vessel behind the pulpit who we all know is human just as you and me and subject to the same laws, principles, and limitations that we all are. I'm not making any excuses for incorrect Biblical knowledge, or alleged abuse of authority as has been alleged, but it sounds very much to me that you are attempting to make an excuse for yourself, a self proclaimed and authenticated judgement, authenticated by yourself, self proclaimed out of your mouth, and this is your error of judgement. You can not disengage yourself from Christ because of a Church, or someone you perceive to be a false prophet, or even because of your unfortunate set of circumstances. You would do well to read what Paul has to say about his love for Christ, in that there is nothing that should separate you from the love of God. I noticed that you have three books displayed on your site, and many more "like" books linked to your sites that attempt to provide a picture of a faith that is distorted, and of pagan holidays that are observed, and of a confused religion, nothing could be further from the truth. I could very well sit here and draft up a ten (10) page letter to you concerning the error in your way of thinking, but I'm not writing this letter for your re-acclamation, but rather as a reminder of the truth. God Bless. Sincerely,  Concerned Person


 Dear Concerned,

You are mistaken. I never said that I was not responsible for allowing myself to be misled. I am just as guilty of being wrong as a person that falls for any other scam, such as hiring a person that says they will put in a new driveway for you, takes your money, but never installs it. We are both stupid and never should have believed the scam artist, be he religious conman or driveway installer. I am just as guilty as a rape victim that had a flat tire in a bad neighborhood.

The whole point of the PT site is that, even though we members were stupid flies that flew into a spider's web, the spiders should be held responsible too. By your rationalization, no rapists, murders, robbers, etc. should be held accountable since their victims allowed whatever happened to happen even if they were tricked and lied to.

I would point out to you that, while you consider yourself superior to me, you are, in fact, still trapped in a cult, the cult of Jesus, while I am now free. At least I have learned from my 25 years of slavery. You are still enslaved and you don't even know it. And you will not read the books that will give you the freedom that I have because you are afraid.

I will not be accepting any more mail from you so don't bother responding.


PS: I would suggest that, before you write anyone a ten page letter, you learn how to make paragraphs.

My name is Ryan. I am 27 years old and was a part of "The Church" for about 13 years. My entire childhood was spent being forced to go and believe what my parents believed.

I stopped going the day I turned 18 and was able to decide on my own. It took quite a few years before I realized why I was such an angry person. I have not spoken to my parents in almost 3 years due to the church. It does and has ruined lives and families. I just wanted to say thanks for exposing the truth and to let you know that there is one more person who feels the way you do.


 Dear Editor,

This is in reply to: Lenard.

Dear friend, the great and mighty god of OZ, the god of the bible, is a fraud, a hypocrite, and just doesn't give a shit, one way or the other about mankind.

Let us say you pray. Like all good believers in wcg, we begged like dogs at the dinning room table for answer to our prayers. Sometimes we seemed to get the desired effect from such begging, other times we would invent reasons as to why god would not answer our beggarly supplementation's. "God must be testing us, to see if we remain faithful" i.e., supporting gauds church.

If god is such a loving supporting "thing", why did he allow his Jewish offspring to be slaughtered by Hitler and his merry men? To show his love and deliverance? After all that death and destruction gaud reached out in his "anger" and delivered what was left of them? BULLSHIT!!

Now let us say that god is something different than the biblical tyrant that we all learned to love, and from that point, to despise. Let us imagine that this force "Creative Thought" (GOD) that never inspired a fallible book of fairy tales, hears the pleas of the oppressed Jews and then does not lift the proverbial finger to assist the poor suffering captive bastards. What kind of fair game is that?

And let us not forget his Universal Church, the Catholics. The Pope of the time assisted the Nazi's in capturing and exporting the poor saps to death camps where they were dispatched to never, never land. The great representatives of Jesus, his life, his example's, all following the spirit of the Law, these great champion's and victor's of Christ, who assisted the "evil" in the destruction of a race!!

Great god. Got to love him, don't ya?

Here is some friendly advice: Take your bible and hide it in the bottom of your trash can on garbage delivery day. Let that piece of toxic waste go to the pit, never to be seen again.

Disclaimer: Permit to dump toxic waste items may be necessary. Check your County's local ordinances for the legality and process of toxic waste disposal!



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